Divorce. Thanks Obama

[Zues126]

I agree with this, we'd see a lot less people wanting the ring, the wedding, the perfect house, the kids - and rushing off to get married without really thinking things through and doing some serious soul searching. I certainly lived this - me and my wife went from dating, to living together, to getting pregnant, then married in less than a year. It was beautiful at the time, but I wish we would have had an opportunity to get to know each other a little more first.

I also now understand my friends who wanted to live together but not get married. Me and my wife used to wonder why they didn't get married. Now I'm realizing their lifestyle choice was perfectly valid.

I was with you until this, but I dunno qt, this assumes that staying happily married is a matter of finding someone 'compatible'.

I don't believe in compatible. Oh, I get it. There has to be some basis, like you both speak the same language, either want kids or no kids, religion, what country to live in, etc. I mean, you can maybe even get around one of these, MWD says that all long term marriages have 3-5 unresolveable issues that people just have to accept and let go of, daily.

They say people that cohabit prior to marriage divorce at a higher rate. Maybe that's because they are the picker group with higher expectations and standards?

My point is beyond that I think it's the idea that we need to find the right partner that is the problem. In general I think it's more about what we do with the partner we have. And I don't mean changing them or controlling them. I mean accepting the loss and reality that they don't give us everything we want or aren't exactly the way we'd choose them to be, but then learning to appreciate what they DO bring and choosing to do our best to honor and love them anyway, through better and worse.

[Zues126]

But when I suffer because the pure, unconditional, and all powerful love that we all crave doesn't exist in this world, rather than self-medicate by assuring myself that I will get it if I just keep reading self-help books, I'd rather just have a moment of silence for the pain and suffering that it is to be human, grow where I can but not obsessively, then do my best to enjoy what I have in my life. I'm sure there will be some good times ahead, it doesn't have to be a fairy book to be a fun and meaningful journey.

This may be my future, I can't say that I wouldn't be disappointed if I didn't find love again somehow - but if this is my future then so be it. I'm at the point now when I'm questioning whether the concept of 'perfect love' as the end all be all of human experience is actually antithetical to living authentically.

You said it better than I did. I think the world isn't about pursuing individual happiness, it's about serving. Serving our lord, our partners, our families, our communities. And through that part of being human is suffering. Now, in the middle of that we will find acceptance and some times of beauty and joy. But we don't get beauty and joy by abandoning our charge and going out and looking for it. It comes when we let go and appreciate the opportunity to serve that we've been given.

[qt4x11]

I was with you until this, but I dunno qt, this assumes that staying happily married is a matter of finding someone 'compatible'.

I don't believe in compatible.

I think that's a good point. You can live together for a long time and still not accept or know everything about each other. And people can change on you too.

Taking that further, is it even realistic to hold these high standards that relationships should last a lifetime for them to be 'great relationships'? What if the best relationship is one where you are very happy and experience and learn a lot about each other, and then it ends for some reason after a period of time. Maybe we should just accept these relationships for what they are and be happy that they even happened at all.

[Zues126]

Taking that further, is it even realistic to hold these high standards that relationships should last a lifetime for them to be 'great relationships'? What if the best relationship is one where you are very happy and experience and learn a lot about each other, and then it ends for some reason after a period of time. Maybe we should just accept these relationships for what they are and be happy that they even happened at all.

I think we do both.

I play competitive pool. When I play, I play like it's life and death. After I put away my cue I remember it's just a game designed for me to have fun, and the outcome really isn't that big of a deal. The first half helps me fight when I'm in the ring. The second half allows me to enjoy the journey regardless of the outcome.

Same way with marriage. Once it's over we have to grieve what was lost, say a quiet thanks for what we had, and continue to cherish what we still have in our lives. But as long as we're in the marriage we have to do everything we can to make it work. In other words, just because we have to accept the loss when it comes, doesn't mean we shouldn't care that it was lost or not fight for what we believe in.

[MrBond]

"Same way with marriage. Once it's over we have to grieve what was lost, say a quiet thanks for what we had, and continue to cherish what we still have in our lives. But as long as we're in the marriage we have to do everything we can to make it work. In other words, just because we have to accept the loss when it comes, doesn't mean we shouldn't care that it was lost or not fight for what we believe in."

Great quote.

[Buxom]

Agreed, it's profound and helpful to hear, thanks.

[MoveFrwd]

None of these things ever crossed his mind, and I think it's worth at least considering the potential pitfalls.

Like I said, I was married in my early 20s.

Im sure if someone told me the pitfalls, I wouldnt have been in a place to hear or understand them. Just like my ex and your ex told us of the problems they were having, but we werent in a place to understand or listen.

Sometimes, seeing is believing.

Not saying everyone should go through a divorce. But theres no way to really understand the ramifications of divorce until you live through it.

[Ginger1]

None of these things ever crossed his mind, and I think it's worth at least considering the potential pitfalls.

Like I said, I was married in my early 20s.

Im sure if someone told me the pitfalls, I wouldnt have been in a place to hear or understand them. Just like my ex and your ex told us of the problems they were having, but we werent in a place to understand or listen.

I completely agree with this. I was married at 24, divorced at 29, with a baby. My friends married young also. Some made it. I always tried to use my situation as a learning experience for them when hit the tough stuff in a M. I want them to look to what I went through so that maybe they have a more realistic idea of what M was like and what needs to be done to hold one up.

I basically teach from what went wrong in my life, and it could help others through the tough times.

Sometimes, seeing is believing.

Not saying everyone should go through a divorce. But theres no way to really understand the ramifications of divorce until you live through it.

[Surfer]

"Same way with marriage. Once it's over we have to grieve what was lost, say a quiet thanks for what we had, and continue to cherish what we still have in our lives. But as long as we're in the marriage we have to do everything we can to make it work. In other words, just because we have to accept the loss when it comes, doesn't mean we shouldn't care that it was lost or not fight for what we believe in.

I like this.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

I mean, you can maybe even get around one of these, MWD says that all long term marriages have 3-5 unresolveable issues that people just have to accept and let go of, daily.

If you think of friendships in this context...you have friends that have "issues", large, small - whatever. For example, I have a friend who had 4 kids with his g/f yet affairs all over (I also have friends that have been in prison and friends that do drugs - I do none of these things - people have issues, they are not perfect). Anyway, I told this friend, I didn't agree with his affairs but did I drop him, no. He straightened himself out and married the mother of his 4 kids. No more affairs.

I also have 'normal friends' people who are IT boffins, Professionals, Doctors, Mums, Dads etc. BTW.

My point is this though (I may be making it badly). In a friendship you tend to be more forgiving due to the distance in your relationship. Whereas in a M proximity makes those 3-5 issues grind up against you/your S constantly. The point here is about how relaxed you and your S are regarding those issues. Can you just stand back and say, 'yes, but I love them anyway'? One of these problems is a post affair scenario. Can you forgive? My friends W did, many others do. Can I, can you, can your S? The million dollar question. Depends on who you are. If you can can they change and can you? There is something dysfunctional about you and your S as individuals when together. If those 3-5 issues are there, do you 'need' to change or do they 'need' to accept you? If they can't accept you, should you change or should you move on to someone that can accept you 'warts and all'?

Just thoughts. Personally, my W wants to spend an awful lot of time with her friends and puts their opinions and respect before mine. I don't want that. I also have not put her first at all times. We both kind of did the same thing. I don't think she can change and I don't want that kind of R. We did used to put each other first but there is no relationship with disrespect. So unless that respect comes back the R is not. That's my choice. I refuse to change to accept a disrespectful wife. However, in the meantime I am working being more respectful of my W.

In terms of "not being blessed with the M you want." You might not be right now but what's to stop you getting what you want in life. Trust me, it's out there unless you want something inanely weird.

Apologies for the ramblings!

Surfer.