I'm having this issue right now regarding the C. I just saw this C she wanted me to bring in W. I'm seeing her under the guise that it's for me only and not really about the R...afterall, my w likes to pretend there is no problem (this is a HUGE mistake I'm making so ignore those posts I made on this topic). It's not a coincidence that my counselor is also a leading Dr. on eating disorders, self-destructive behaviors and women's issues. There are some deep issues in my W in this area that I'm not fully aware of and she aint talkin'. I want this C for her but not until I get a better read on her "marriage orientation". I would hate to have her tell my W to leave me (but...it some ways, that would be progress because I would regain my respect for my W instead of watching her cower in insecurity and inactivity). Sorry, I digressed.
NOW, there's a big problem here. The C is "mine" and I've had a session...we have a history. Bringing my W into her would be a terrible mistake because it wouldn't matter if this was the greatest mind in psychology...my W will not want to hear anything. While my W agreed to go with me next Monday, I told her today that she is off the hook.
The C says for me to not "take sole ownership of the relationship repair". She says that my W keeps handing it back to me and I keep taking it. This was truly insightful because it's absolutely true and I do this with everyone. A lot of us here seem to do it. It's in our "fixit" nature.
I'm sorry, I'm talking about me again on your thread.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: I'm sorry, I'm talking about me again on your thread.
I don't mind, Dave. Lord (and everyone here) knows I've talked about myself on your thread a time or two...
Quote: She says that my W keeps handing it back to me and I keep taking it. This was truly insightful...
Wow, Dave, that took my breath away! I think your C is absolutely right... and that dynamic is at work in MY R as well, I'm sure...
You're right that it would be a HUGE mistake to take your W to that C at this point. It would be you and C ganging up on W, and I can't see W being at all cooperative under those circumstances. I also think your seeing this C under "false pretenses" pretty much stinks, but I think you see that now also. Nuff said. What you MIGHT do at this point is break off after a couple of sessions, since YOU don't really need therapy (do you?), and later, if W decides she might want to see someone, you can recommend this one to her. At that point, I don't think C could share anything with your W that YOU didn't want shared, since that would break confidentiality, which is a responsibility she'd now have to BOTH of you. Just a thought...
Last night as W and I were going to bed, we had something like the following conversation:
me: I've been thinking about what you asked earlier about having me help you figure out how to start with the C. Can you tell me what YOU think you'd like to talk about with her?
W: I don't know... my stress, I guess... that seems to be the biggest thing these days...
me: I was just thinking that this is your chance to talk about what YOU want to... this is YOUR C, and I will commit that I won't ask you about it... if you want to tell me anything that's fine.
(we say goodnight)
me: 'Cause you had said before that with our last C, you didn't feel like she was sympathetic to you, and didn't really HEAR your side of things...
Can't really remember too much, but the gist of it from W's POV (that came across to me, anyway) was that she doesn't really KNOW why she's going there... which means it probably won't bear fruit. I'm already working on Plan B...
I'm in training today, so I won't be able to post again until tonight...
Hey guys, I'll just jump in here with my experience and maybe (or not) it can help. When the spouse and I started counselling to help with our R problem about 2 years ago, we first went to a health assigned provider and the first session was just chaos and not much happened, although that counsellor referred me to the one we are now both seeing. I saw the second counsellor alone for about 8 months, almost weekly for a while. She helped with my ability to be able to express emotions and learn to that better, well not perfect according to the spouse, but she has noticed that it's better. I had been repressing emotions and their expression for a very long time and the counselling has helped me figure those out. I am of similar age to you guys and was brought during the "guys don't show emotion" time, so it has been and still continues to be a tough journey for me.
Anyway, after about 8 months of my seeing the counsellor we invited my spouse to join us and that has gone quite well. My spouse does not feel ganged up on and has gone in to see the C a few times on her own to deal with her own body and self-esteem issues. So in our situation things worked well. Although were still working on the sex thing, or I wouldn't still be here.
I hope for you guys that things work out better this time.
"Satisfaction is not guaranteed." Rule #19 Ferengi "Rules of Acquistition"
I think Scott's point was great. The longer we individually see a C, the easier it will be. When the C asked me to bring my W in, my first comment was "hmmm, we just started this process in January. It might be too soon to incorporate C without giving it time to work first". She didn't seem to think so. Man, I typically don't trust my instincts on things but you know, this just made me realize that I need to put some stiff questions to my C next time. She heard my story...I think I need to get hers.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Well... tonight was kind of frustrating. For one thing, very little time together, plus at least one "kid-oriented" blowup. I got home from training just shortly before W had to drive S18 to work (about 5:00). She was gone until around 6:00 or so. Around 5:50, D20 starts getting nervous because she has to go to Brownies at 6:30, and there's not even been supper yet. I say, well I guess you should get a sandwich, and if worst comes to worst I can drive you to brownies. Long story short, W comes home from the store, gets reminded about brownies (had forgotten), and immediately becomes overwhelmed, and ends up dashing out for Rotten Ronnie's instead of making the frozen lasagna she'd bought. Bummer #1. While she was out getting supper, I totally tidied the kitchen, dried and put away everything in the draining rack, made sure there was nothing left to do. Supper was pleasant enough, once we got to it, and then after, W drives D20 to brownies. Comes home, has lots of ironing to do, so she irons for the next hour or so while we watch TV. My brother calls during this time to wish me Happy Birthday, so I talk to him for a while, then W has to go out to get D20 from brownies. Then shortly after returning, she's going back out to get S18 from work. So she was either ironing or out most of the evening.
She didn't even approach sitting with me until nearly 10:00. However... as she's getting ready to sit down, she puts the Dr. Phil Relationship Rescue book on the couch, like she's going to finally READ it. I'm thinking, okay, this looks like a good sign... Except when she sits down, she's reading her f*kin' meno book again, although the Dr. Pheel book is nearby. AND she's dead asleep within 15 min anyway.
I'll see what happens with her C, and by next week I think I'm going to go see my own C... I just can't take much more of this sh!t...
Dude, You ABSOLUTELY need to go to the bookstore and read chapter 11 of Passionate Marriage. It gives an interesting insight into people like our Ws and Corri when it comes to "pressure" and it explained everything I'm experiencing right now (like the bad sex). It's completely based around a case study and not at all preachy. This guy is pretty damn smart and makes people like Dr. Laura and *others* look like amateurs. I wish I would have bought it today but I was so overwhelmed and dizzy after reading it that I figured a break would be smarter. Plus, my W hates "the books".
Anyway, it's the first time I've read something that makes me want to let my W off the hook for a while and see how long before she initiates. I have a much better understanding of why it might take a couple weeks or more.
What I did learn is that I need a pretty damn sharp therapist to get results. That one chapter made me realize how much of a "hack" I am at this stuff and how deep the issues in our LDWs really can be. Just listen to Corri...she's got a brilliant understanding of herself, is very introspective and motivated yet she still seems to have strings attached to her like a marionette with an LD monster controlling her against her will.
What was also promising about this case-study was that the woman seemed to be an incurable LD like CeMar (and that b!tch Dr. Laura) always describe. Why would any woman willingly destroy her own marriage if they didn't have some other issues. I wish I had bought it.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Well, as W and I were going to bed last night, my "nightmare scenario" began to play itself out. After we kissed goodnight, it went something like this:
W: I guess I'm kind of nervous about this appointment tomorrow. I don't know what I'm going to talk about.
Me: That's not encouraging. I can't really tell you what to talk about with her.
W: I guess I don't really know why I'm going.
Me: Well, I don't want you to feel like you're going there just because I want you to go there.
W: I mean, I have physical issues...
Me: Well, I think after last weekend, I would not agree that you have these overwhelming physical issues that are preventing sex.
W: Plus there's all this stress...
Me: Do you think you have more stress now than, say, 2 years ago?
W: Yes
Me: Well, the other day I went back and read the journal I'd written 2 years ago when we were seeing (last MC), and we were dealing with the very same issues. Nothing has changed... everything is still the same.
W: But now I feel like I could fix it.
Me: Fix it how?
W: By trying harder, maybe... reading that book (the Dr. Phil book)
Okay, so now I'm going WTF... I think she's actually losing it. She seems to be in such deep denial that she can't even see she's talking in circles. She's coming up with excuse after excuse, and when I remove an excuse she comes up with another one. I'm not in sales, but I've done sales enough to know about "overcoming objections" - that's what she's doing here. Actually, I guess that's going both ways. She raises an objection, and I remove it (example: she's dry, I order AG), then she raises another objection. It's like peeling an onion - just layer after layer.
After the conversation, we both lay there for a while without sleeping. I could feel the coldness between us. Again this morning I woke up an hour before the alarm, unable to sleep. This has got to stop!
I am slowly going crazy 1-2-3-4-5-6 switch... Crazy going slowly am I 6-5-4-3-2-1 switch...
Do you remember when you were a kid, heading home from somewhere, knowing that when you got home you were going to get in troube for __________ . And the closer you got, the more worked up you felt?
Your wife is feeling anxious because she doesn't know what to expect, and dear gawd, what would she do, what will it mean if the shrink looks at her and tells her she ISN'T normal? C'mon. Encourage and support your wife. This isn't about you (though it sounds like you are taking it that way). She is NERVOUS. Tell her the shrink is there to talk to and will help her discover things to talk about that she would never imagine. Don't let her off the hook, but give her the kind and encouraging words she NEEDS from you to find her own courage.
btw, why do you not help your wife with running of the kids? She went out no less than 4 times last night and you are wondering why she didn't sit down with you until 10? Really?
Can you at least give an overview of what you read in Chpt. 11? I'd really like to know what penetrated your HD brain... It has obviously made an impression on you.
I'm with Corri on this one, Tim. You need to help your W out. Running the kids around should be shared. And this ironing, thing. What's she ironing? Your shirts? Either you learn how to iron your own shirts or take them to the cleaners for a $1 a pop...they actually tend to last longer when the cleaners do them. If she's ironing the kid's things...hey, they're both old enough to do this themselves. If it's her stuff, then fine...although my W just waits until right before she wears something to iron it.
Not to break the "guy code" here, but it sounds like you were sitting on your tush all evening while she was running hers off.
Hairdog, who can bring home the bacon...fry it up in a pan...and never never forget he's a man...when my W lets me.
It has obviously made an impression on you.