MLC, WAW or WW?? Who really knows? Help...pls

[sandi2]

Does she have to face any consequences for her show of disrespect?

Do have any boundaries in place?

[bigybiz]

Sandi2:

Can you give some examples of consequences that the MLC,WAW or WW would realize are consequences. Sometimes the boundaries, consequences are interpreted as controlling or other bad behavior.

[Surfer]

ROE

Hope you are keeping focus. Your focus needs to be TOTALLY off her. TOTALLY - focus on the kids, GAL, gym, anything that makes you happy (it takes time - keep that focus). Just not her - no focusing on her!

She is a WW. She deserves nothing from you. Forget talking to her. Look right through her but be decent. Stay away from any conflict. She will only use what you say against you to create rewritten history.

I have lived some of your story. Not all of it. But I can truly say living with a WW is hard. But it gets better - you will find peace and happiness. I promise. I have.

The OM sitch was not so visible to me, as it is to you, but in some ways that's worse. Not knowing. At least you broadly know what is happening. Try to take a pyrrhic victory in that if you can - cr@p though it is.

Look mate it's this simple. You would not choose the attributes your Mrs is showing (a liar, manipulator, unfaithful, resentful etc - it's a massive list; write it down). So stop wanting her and kick her to the side. His is your WW. You do not want her back and get rid (emotionally and permanently). Drop her like a 2 ton bag of hot sh!t in the dessert. You don't want to carry that. No. The W, yes, that lovely person. You'll have her back at the drop of a hat and quite rightly. I hope she sees sense and returns (we all want this) - but if she doesn't, don't settle for the WW. She's not good enough for you. I don't care if she can suck a golf ball through 50 yards of hospipe in under 30 seconds. Bin her off in your mind. She can jog on!

How do you do this? Detach. GAL have fun with the kids, do stuff you like and pay her no heed! Zero. Be decent, not unkind, don't argue. Just be like 'the dogs' when it comes to being you, Dad, a kind, decent and lovable man. The stuff you normally do!

Enough said!

Surfer.

[Surfer]

ROE

Do you know what Sandi means when she says boundaries?

If you do, what are they, have you told her what they are?

Surfer.

[RosaLinda]

Sandi2:

Can you give some examples of consequences that the MLC,WAW or WW would realize are consequences. Sometimes the boundaries, consequences are interpreted as controlling or other bad behavior.

I think a lot of us LBSs have a lot of problems setting and enforcing boundaries, because we're, on the whole, enabling fixers. I had next to no marital boundaries when my ex whacked out on me, and took a lot of notes during my DBing days.

Personal boundaries are lines we draw to protect our body, mind, emotions, time, finances, etc., from the demands and behavior of others. They should be designed to protect you and your kids, not to control or change your wife. The consequence for breaching a boundary is supposed to allow your wife (or kid or co-worker or whomever is breaching that line) to experience the pain or discomfort caused by her choices -- cause and effect. But make sure that any consequences you set are enforceable -- something you have to power to do and that you will be willing to carry out. Boundaries should be things that are important enough to you that you are "willing to die on that hill."

For example, for a long time I was not strong enough to threaten to kick out my ex if he refused to stop skyping with OW (she lived in Russia). But I did enforce the sort of wimpy boundary that he had to skype in his bedroom with the door closed so my sons and I did not have to hear them talking and flirting, or else I would take away his internet. When years later I finally had enough and was willing to die on that hill, I changed my boundary to choose "her or me." He chose her. I did not die after all

Other examples might be to state that you would call the cops or take out an order of protection if your wife physically abused you. Cancel her credit card it she purchased gifts for OM using it. Maybe Sandi will clarify what she meant.

Here is the link to the Boundaries Cheat Sheet from Cadet's homework.

[ForGump]

Please

boundaries?

Surfer/Rose/Others -- Help me see this in a more concrete way.

ROE's WW spending time w/ OM while with their kids is causing a lot of confusion and distress to the kids. So let's say ROE wants to draw a boundary there. What would that boundary be? "I don't want you to spend time w/ OM while with our kids." Well, how is that enforced?

Not being argumentative. Would like to understand how this works in pratice.

[RosaLinda]

Surfer/Rose/Others -- Help me see this in a more concrete way.

ROE's WW spending time w/ OM while with their kids is causing a lot of confusion and distress to the kids. So let's say ROE wants to draw a boundary there. What would that boundary be? "I don't want you to spend time w/ OM while with our kids." Well, how is that enforced?

Not being argumentative. Would like to understand how this works in pratice.

Well Roe's chosen consequence would have to be enforceable, and something he is willing to do if she does not back down. "I don't want you to spend time w/ OM while with our kids" is telling Roe's wife what he wants, but is not really stating a boundary because there is no consequence.

The most radical would be something like "I don't want you to spend time w/ OM while with our kids and the next time you do, I will pack your bags and put them on the front lawn." Roe would have to be willing to stick with that if he said it though, or his wife would lose even more respect for him.

Also rather radical: "I don't want you to spend time w/ OM while with our kids and the next time you do, I will file for divorce."

How about this: "I don't want you to spend time w/ OM while with our kids and the next time you do, I will go and tell OM's wife that you two are having an affair." Or maybe tell Roe's neighbors; I think Roe said OM is not married.

[bigybiz]

RosaLinda:

You have few great examples. Sandi2's original post was about when a WAW.WW,MLC shows disrespect. For many of us it's about being treated worse than the Spouse would treat a stranger i.e. being rude or not replying to message, being late for pick up/drop off, not making payments when agreed to etc.

Some of us struggle with being tempted to mirror back the same behavior which is equally bad. Also, where is the line between being petty and crossing a boundary (e.g. is 5 mins late OK or 10 or 20)?

Anyone have any ideas?

[RosaLinda]

Ha, yeah Bigy, mirroring some of their worst behaviors probably is not a good idea, especially in front of the kids

I think the thing is that you have to decide how important the behavior is to you. That's what I meant by "being willing to die on that hill." I understand that your wife being late for kid transfer is annoying, but how important is it to you? If she is consistently a half hour late and you are getting in trouble with your job because she is causing you to be late, that's a big deal. If it is just ticking you off, maybe it's something you can let go.

We can probably think of some consequences for that sort of behavior. "W the next time you are more than 15 minutes late to pick up the kids, I will have brought them to my mom's house" or something like that?

All this stuff is really hard to deal with, especially when your kids are also affected. Or your finances.

For dealing with rudeness, my DB coach told me to tell my ex how his actions made me feel. "H when you walk away when I am talking to you, I feel disrespected."

He went through several really nasty periods, like your wife treats you. I tried "H what you are saying is important to me, but it hurts my feelings when you call me names. Let's continue this discussion later when you feel calmer." "H I have told you how you yelling at me makes me feel. If you don't stop yelling at me, I am going to hang up the phone."

It didn't always work though, probably because I am not a really strong person. Most of the time, I did not try to enforce any boundaries, and just said "I'm sorry you feel like that" over and over and over LOL

[ROE]

Thanks guys, I really have no clue which boundaries are appropriate. W is goading me into filing. I feel that I can't enforce boundaries or I'm just straight scared to know what to do. I really think that D is really the only option I have, I will gladly take on suggestions. I can't type much at the moment but will check again later. I really believe she is painting me into a corner. We closed today on a big sale and oddly enough the level of disrespect has kicked up a notch. Supposedly W will be moving out very soon then D papers will be served to me. This really just has to end somehow. I think I'm in a hopeless situation.

ROE