Newby here, desperate for some advice (thread 4)

[sandi2]

I need to see if I can do it. I focus on her issues a lot, but where do MY issues start? Can I even go dim at this point, or will I invent some stupid excuse to contact her? I want to see. She's told me she needs space that I can't usually give her because, unless I'm GALing, I'm at home trying to soak up as much kid time as I can before she blows it all up. Well, this is almost 2,000 miles of space for 4-5 days, and she'll have it if I can sack up and not be a girly man trying to call her and text her.

FWIW, I think this sounds like a man being painfully honest with himself. I don't think you are a girly-man.....(lol) I think you are a good man who honestly was doing what you thought a H in your situation should do. I believe you are ready to DB, now, b/c you are discovering what you always thought about husband-wife relationships.....may not be how it works for your MR. A lot of H's and fathers are in the boat with you. I suspect it is somewhat scary, for some, to consider getting outside their comfort area.

I can't remember if I told you. I married a man who had super NGS. I mean, they just didn't come any sweeter than my guy! However, along with his sweetness, came passivity, conflict avoidance (and the whole list). What I thought was sweet about him, before we married......became the very thing I hated about him. And, I have seen the same thing played out over & over again in the stories here. What we think we see in our future spouse....may not be the complete picture. Someone once said that in most M's, there is one spouse who does most of the giving.....and the other spouse who does most of the taking. I think that becomes the case in the stories we read on these forums. It's not 50/50, like some us were led to believe. It "should" be, but when it's not, you have the giver and the taker. I will readily admit I was the spouse that did most of the taking......b/c after all, I was married to a man who had NGS. Well, guess what? I have learned, first hand, that men with NGS can change, and it doesn't stop them from being a good man.

[lt0402]

I'm at home trying to soak up as much kid time as I can before she blows it all up.

JR, I completely understand this. I find myself doing the same thing w/ my D bc of my fear around how I'll lose time w/ her in the future. I'm working to find a balance b/t GAL and that fear though, bc the other folks are right, we need to be less available to our Ws.

I bet you'll have a blast on your trip brother. Sounds like a great time and you should enjoy it and keep the thoughts about this situation to a minimum. Come back fully recharged and refreshed!

[JRuss]

Thanks sandi2 and lt0402.

Sandi -- NGS is spot on. Guilty as charged, which is sobering. Do you remember anything that stood out in particular that your H did or said when got his epiphany?

lt -- it's tough, for sure. Lately I've been trying to remind myself that this is how you should always approach your relationship with your kids and loved ones: i.e., with knowledge that it could end, tragically or for mundane reasons, so seize the day all day, every day.

[ForGump]

Dude, 2k mi from CO means you live waaay downeast Maine, in AK or in the Panama Canal Zone. If I had to choose, I'd live in Panama, but that's just me.

Sounds like some breakthrough stuff this morning. Was happy to hear that your wife is emotionally all contorted and suffering inside. That's good, really good. I mean, if she was pulling all this sh!t on you day after day, year after year, and was all calm and rational, then you'd be f[censored]ed. She's volatile, confused, and f[censored]ed up -- that's good, that means she far from comfortable where she is.

I think what you did was good. Gives me a lot of hope for your situation -- but forget I said that, don't let it go to your head.

Anyway, your CO trip -- since you're talking about doing it just for yourself, I say go completely dark. Give her nothing. Give everything to the kids.

Two good movies that come to mind:
After Dark My Sweet -- Probably Jason Patric's best and only good movie.
Zero Dark Thirty -- Love the bad ass CIA field agent.

[sandi2]

Do you remember anything that stood out in particular that your H did or said when got his epiphany?

Somehow I knew that question was coming. Actually, I have been asked similar questions by several others. My answer is that he was not the one who came to the DB board. I was. I was told, quite often, that the spouse who comes to the board....is the spouse who gets the information.

As for my H, if he read any information...it was when I was away from the house. He would not even agree to attend MC, when I asked.....which was frustrating, considering I was the one trying to do what my DB advisors said. I know it may sound odd to normal people who have conversation with their spouses.....but he isn't going to tell me, b/c he doesn't discuss his feelings, or much of anything else with me. Never has! I gave up trying to get him to have conversations with me. So, I will just have to give you my thoughts......(just what you wanted, right?)

I did see a side of him that I had never seen in all the years we had been together. The first confrontation, he was......sweet, kind, and considerate. The next confrontation.....he wasn't! Sometime thereafter, I was told that he finally admitted that he could not "make" me love him. If he had an epiphany, it was seeing that his NG ways, guilting, or some other emotional pressure wasn't working in this situation. I think he basically "gave up". He did discover my DB threads, so maybe he read more than just my posts....and learned about dropping the rope.

Anyway, he has changed from being the man with NGS. He doesn't let anyone run over him, and especially me. He calls me out on anything that hints of disrespect. I doubt he would tolerate any b.s. from me.....(I haven't tried it). He is more assertive. He makes decisions from smaller things to larger (even overriding mine......which I may not always like/agree, but I respect it and follow his lead). He still is a nice, kind, and even sweet person......when he is being treated as such, too. However, I don't see the symptoms of the NGS that I once saw. I have much more respect for him, than I ever had in the past. IDK, maybe he learned from his painful experience.

[JRuss]

Thank you, Sandi. I really appreciate the insight. Holding onto the rope is no good.

Gump -- I may have overstated the mileage somewhat. Google says it's actually only about 1300 miles. Just trying to add to my air of secrecy and intrigue.

[lt0402]

JR, how was the trip? Hope it was an excellent opportunity to unwind!

[JRuss]

The trip was good. It was great hanging out with friends, staying busy, and not thinking about my situation as much as I do when I'm back here in the "real" world.

I went pretty dark. Didn't initiate any calls or texts. I had a pretty significant fall hiking, though, and got fairly banged up. I was actually really fortunate that I wasn't killed or seriously injured (was bouncing down hill, out of control, banging off rocks). Somehow just ended up with a bunch of bruises and scrapes. Anyway, I told my D when we talked that night, and she told my W, and W thought I was more seriously hurt than I was and called me. I thought about not answering when I saw her name on my phone, but I did pick it up. She seemed concerned, which was nice, I guess.

Same situation here as always when I got home. She's making more of an effort not to backslide and show me affection. Cordial roommates, another four days closer to divorce.

[ForGump]

Funny JR, to read about your W calling. What little concern I get from my W, I wonder if it's genuine or just out of guilt and/or the need to be perceived as a decent person by others. I think my W would be relieved if I perished in some outdoor misadventure.

I think about your situation a lot, and I flip flop on how I feel about it. How *I* would feel about it if I were in your shoes. I'll say one thing though -- as much as you're tormented by your W's behavior, I bet she's created a personal purgatory for herself. Maybe an obvious point, but easy to forget, I think, that she's feeling really troubled and confused. Not exactly actionable intel there, but reminding yourself of that might help you shift to a different emotional footing on your situation.

The longer my in-house separation goes on, the more distant I feel about her. The heart strings are still there, though.

Maybe this is just the human condition: the euphoria of marriage lasts 1-3 years, then the rest depends on the character of the two people in the marriage. Some people are able to make happiness, make fulfillment, make love; while others just don't have that in them, for whatever reasons, and endure for 5, 10, 15 or 20 years, then reach the end of their rope. They get a divorce, and repeat the cycle until they're too old.

[JRuss]

I think you're right about the human condition, at least as it applies to marriage. There are those who wake up everyday and choose to love their partner (by overlooking any number of "flaws" that prove to be dealbreakers for the less loyal) and those who look at and focus on what their partner isn't. If you have two of the former, you get the sort of marriage that others wish they had; if you get even one of the latter, it's just a matter of how, not if, it ends.