A couple days w/o journaling. Really kind of in a flat spot right now w/ the situation.
Was out of town for a dinner and meeting w/ some clients Monday/Tuesday. It was good to get out of here for a bit. My boss and I went out after dinner Monday evening and had a bit too much to drink, but it was a nice distraction and he's been very supportive during this whole thing.
Came home tired yesterday, but got to spend a few hours w/ D before bedtime. D loves to wrestle around and so we did a little of that while W went for her run. W hates it when we do that, but as I've told W I think it's healthy for D to horse around.
W comes home and tries to start another fight. I'd cut a few large branches off a bush on the side of the house last Saturday. I'd been asking her for months to either cut the bushes or get someone out to do it, as she wants to be our bush cutter. W goes from anger over me doing that w/o talking to her, to sadness around her having plans for that bush and now she's going to need to remove it completely.
I listened, but really had a problem with her doing this in front of D. When W started crying, D went over to give her a hug. I didn't feel like it's Ds job to console W about a bush. Very concerned that W and D are too intertwined. Regardless, I sent W a text after we put D down apologizing for chopping the bush.
Me: "W, it was wrong of me to trim that bush. I'm sorry that I did it and that it made you feel sad. I'll talk to you in the future before I think about trimming anything else. I'm sorry for hurting you."
W: "FYI your apologies have never been sincere, but when you send me stuff like this that doesn't even sound like you it makes things worse."
Me: "Happy to discuss another night if you'd like, I just need to get some sleep tonight. I just would like you to know that I am being genuine with the apology above. I am sorry that I hurt you and made you sad earlier. Goodnight"
So, it was me attempting something new as I've never been great at apologies. I see the issue w/ it, in that I'm sending her an apology about trimming a bush while she's unremorseful for being in an A currently. That almost kept me from sending it.
IC today also said something similar and that it shouldn't be my place to be the scapegoat for all the issues in our MR. He viewed this as more of the same and the bush trimming and the rest of the fights the W has been trying to provoke are just extensions of W trying to lay blame for our MR issues solely at my feet.
Lesson learned. Thought I was doing a 180, but not an appropriate place to make that 180.
IC visits have turned into discussions wrapped around how I can be bettering myself and how I can minimize more damage from W going forward. It's funny to see them pivot from the "crisis mode" visits I'd been having at the start of this thing, to more intellectual and strategic conversations. From a humor perspective, the IC had the following observation about my trimming the bush:
IC: "I imagine you sitting in a maximum security prison as a new inmate and talking to some other prisoners. The first guy gets asked what he's in for and responds he's there for grand theft. The second guy when asked says he's in for murder. Then you're asked and you respond that you trimmed a bush and cut the tags off a bike helmet..."
That one was good for a laugh and bringing back some perspective to the situation!
Regardless, still grinding on this. IC doesn't seem to have a lot of hope at this point, but we're both on board that it's not over until it's over. Says W seems to be revving her engine on this S thing. That's after I mentioned that it seems like the L stuff has stalled on her end. D is back in school next week. seems like the perfect time for her to devote a lot of time to pushing the S and D forward.
IC thinks we should put D w/ an IC as well. He's concerned about her not being prepared to handle all of this w/ W as entangled in her life as she is. Unsure how my W will take this, but probably will try to broach it w/ her over the weekend.
There's my update for the past couple days. GAL tonight w/ a bunch of work folks, really looking forward to it. Will just keep on keeping on!
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
She's wanting to take away 90% of my Ds time from me and blame the failure of our M solely on me. It's so ridiculous that it'd be laughable were I not living through this garbage every day. I want to ship her to OMs residence with a big as$ card that says "she's your problem now, keep all your sh$t where the queen dictates it should go, jump when the queen says jump, and put your balls into the box after unpacking for her safekeeping."
Did you see Fade's post back a few pages? You never responded or seem or recognize it, so I thought you may have missed it. I think the advice is solid. Please read it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
In case you can't find it, here is the post from Fade:
"""The last two comments hit the target I think - she sounds narcissistic and enmeshed with your D. I have seen this happen in many cases, it has always been the mom but in most cases I have seen like this its usually its the dad instigating divorce because the W has persistently pushed him away from the family and kids, and usually with a heavy dose of parental alienation to boot. Basically, if this is true for her, then she sees your D as an extension of herself, and not as a separate person. These are the people that go off the deep end in custody battles, so you need to be very careful here. I would highly suggest seeing an attorney ASAP so you know your rights and are ready to get custody orders in place.
If you still want to save this, then she needs to see major consequences immediately. In my mind that is doing everything possible to cut off your support, cutting off as much $$ as possible, car insurance, phone and internet, and moving towards selling the house or going for sole use of the home etc. And while exposure is a big debate here, in your case I think it is extremely important that important people in your lives know what she is up to before this devolves into a custody battle. Because I think you need to fully expect that she is going to accuse you of doing terrible things to both her and your D, and if she is the first person to set the narrative, you will be shocked how many people will believe and support her. You probably dont believe she is capable of telling a court room full of strangers and family that you beat her or molested your own daughter, but this has happened to one degree or another in every single one of these case I have dealt with. None of those dads would have believed it either, and many ended up losing absolutely everything as these charges, mug shots and rumors never go away.
Of course the single biggest, and most important action you need to take is to get temporary custody orders to prevent her from taking your D out of the home, because without orders in place there is nothing you can do to stop her from doing so. And when she does, you may need to wait months for emergency hearings before you see her again, meanwhile your D is getting the full parental alienation treatment. It is orders of magnitude easier to keep her from taking your D than getting your D back. However, you have to know that this is the shot across the bow that will trigger your W full fury. So dont threaten her in advance, you just need to do it. And from then on, you need to be in full protection mode, recording all interactions, logging your activities every hour of the day, and locking your room at night.
Sounds scary, and it is, but if you protect yourself now, you will not have to deal with any of this later.
Good luck"""
Me:49 W:45 M:19 T:22 EA confirmed and ended 8/2014 S:19,17 D:9,5
Definitely saw the post from Fade, but honestly I'm having trouble digesting it. It's such a massive step to take. I've found the L I believe I'm going to use, but haven't retained them yet. Maybe it makes sense to go ahead and take that step.
I do worry about how the W will perceive me cutting them a retainer check though. Very hesitant for me to become the person who is pushing this whole thing forward. Would have preferred that burden to be on my W. By me proceeding with it I'm concerned that alleviates her guilt around the whole D process.
Fade, you're right in that I couldn't see my W making those kind of accusations against me. That said, I definitely do not want to be blindsided by something as egregious as that. To be frank, I've probably not responded yet to your post bc it really scares the sh%t out of me...
Part of that fear is that if I take a move like cutting everything off and putting a custody order in place I've thrown in the towel on my MR. It seems like if there's any hope to salvaging this situation, this would effectively kill that. Am I taking too drastic of a view on this? Am I being stupid in hoping that this is salvageable? Am I risking too much in the hope that I can keep my MR and family together?
My IC also says not to threaten her w/ the custody stuff. He also thinks that she's going to be difficult to deal w/ in regards to it. Bleh.
I appreciate ya'lls thoughts, and Fade, I'm sorry for not responding sooner. Really curious to get some more thoughts on this and whether I've got rose colored glasses on. Thank you Fade/Sandi/MV for the straight talk and perspective. Should I be this concerned about the situation?
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
lt0402 - glad trip went well. I forgot you had left and was checking to see an update haha. Good food for thought on fade's post. with ww's anything is possible.
Hi lt, I admit I was trying to scare you straight so to speak. If you know your lawyer, then you can pay for a couple of consultations to get your plan in order without retaining them. And your W may not need to know about this. I always recommend people try for an uncontested or mediated settlement before retaining lawyers, unless there are special circumstances like a lot of funds or other legal threats. I just want to warn you that you need to, as you put it, stop seeing your situation and WW with rose colored glasses because from what you describe, she sounds very high risk.
In terms of you being afraid to enforce consequences for fear of throwing in the towel, I think you have that completely backwards. She is actively having a physical affair. Nothing you do is going to top that. In your vows you did not promise to pay her cell phone bill and for her gas to see OM! Allowing her to continue her plans to take your D away and make OM her new daddy, on your tab, is the absolutely best way to ensure you get divorced. In reality, divorce will be a bad situation for her and she will need to see this before she would ever want to reconcile. And that means she needs to see real consequences.
But, if you are not ready to take big steps, here are some little steps you can get started on:
1. Get a preferably paid consultation with a couple of lawyers, and get a plan of action for when/if you retain them. Find out what impact infidelity may have on divorce, spousal support, etc. The law is one thing, judges are another. That is why you need to ask multiple lawyers. And maybe they can go ahead and start drafting emergency custody papers keeping your D in your home, so you can file them quickly if it looks like she is about to take action.
2. Keep online and written documentation of all of your amazing dad activities. Give your WW rope and try to document you spending as much time as possible with your D. Document when your WW leaves with loverboy or is on the phone all night etc. I know she is a SAHM and has all day, but if you have your by yourself D 4-5 evenings a week, once she starts working it looks like you would be the primary parent.
3. Buy a Sony voice activated recorder. Keep it with you at all times you are in the same vicinity as your WW and D. Assume she is recording you as well. Do not escalate any argument. If she pushes you, or hits you then vocalize that and ask her to stop.
3. Tell her that if she thinks she is separated, then she needs to live like it and not just act like it. She needs to get a job, she needs to either move out or start paying for the house. Close out all joint credit cards, remove her as a user from yours. Change any CC numbers you have that she knows about. Split out 50% of the bank account funds and move it to a completely separate bank. Cut off all funds unless your L tells you to pay her some amount each month. If so, wire or pay her by check.
4. Get out front of her story. That means letting important people in your life know she is having an affair. I know exposure is not usually recommended here, but I am not saying to post it on facebook to the world. But people that she will use to draw support from in the eventual custody battle should hear your side first. So, that is probably her parents, siblings, very close family friends etc. And your D should be made aware in a honest way that your WW wants to leave and you do not want her to, but that it is NOT your D's fault in any way.
I know this is all scary, but in the long run, the worst action for you is inaction. I know you want to reconcile, but you have to accept that is not under your control. Keep building your relationship with your D, position yourself well for finances and custody, and protect yourself from false narratives or allegations and you will come out on top. Do all of this, and then if the worst happens and she doesnt come back, I can pretty much promise you that in a year, you will look back and wont be able to believe you ever put up with your crazy WW.
Thanks Fade! Took the above and worked through a couple of them today.
On #1, I've met w/ 3 different Ls, and I've settled on which one I'll use. I was waiting on W to push it forward, but she put down a smaller retainer on 7/28 w/ her L, so I'm not sure what's going on there. I'm speaking to the L I'd use if she pushed forward on Wed of next week, to start on a plan. I know W has provided them our wills and family trust documents, but no idea where W stands in the process. I'd not be surprised to get a S agreement from her sometime soon. As a matter of fact, last night when I came home, there were 2 large manila envelopes on her counter. Unsure what those are.
On #2, try to keep most of my journaling of D and me time on here. It does make sense to make something more formal. Typically, I'm getting home around 6:30 and hanging out w/ D until bedtime at 9:15. I'm going to push W to split homework time w/ D once school starts bc I need to be more plugged in there.
On #3, I'm at a point where I won't let my W push me into a confrontation. It's hard, but I think manageable. Will look into getting a recorder this weekend.
On #3b, I'm going to discuss this in more detail w/ the L next week. Want to make sure of the legal consequences of this were I to do it.
On #4, Going to need to ruminate on this one. She's really only close w/ her father in her family. The rest of the folks are the same friends pushing her towards OM as they're all college friends.
Realizing that I've put myself in limbo on this stuff. Putting things in place in case they need to be used is a great idea. Found myself cursing my W today for making me get into this type of stuff. So horribly unnecessary...
Appreciate your thoughts and advice Fade! A nice little kick in the a$$ that was probably needed on my end.
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
Gym last night, did some running as I got out of work late and didn't have time to do weights. Got home, showered, joined W and D for the tail end of dinner. Notice that there are now 2 large manila envelopes of papers on Ws countertop. D had her back to school day yesterday and W is a room parent. Unsure if these are related to that, or if they have to do w/ W and her Ls. Who knows.
W upset that the washing machine is making a weird sound. Blames it on me using too much detergent since I'm doing my own laundry. I ignore her comment, but may need to get it looked at.
W goes out for a run so D and I build a pillow fort, horse around some, and then do a little bit of iPad while W is showering. I'm not on my A-game last night bc I slept horribly the previous evening. Hope it didn't show to D and she had a good time regardless.
Put D to bed and I go to bed as well. Wake up around 12:45am and W is still downstairs and has all the lights on. Strange. Fall back asleep. Wake up again around 4:45am and W is still not in bed, but the TV is on downstairs. W sneaks into bed at 5am and I get up at 5:15 to go to the gym. In the kitchen I notice there's a large, empty wine bottle in the fridge, and a wine glass drying in the drying rack. Unsure why W is drinking every evening and keeping such weird hours.
Hit up the gym for my morning run. Head to work for a couple hours to take care of some stuff. Take 2 hrs to go to DMV to get another driver's license (lost mine in DC on Monday/Tuesday) and stop by Ls office to discuss retainer options. L not there today, but talking to them next week again.
In the car on the way back to work, I found myself wondering why I'm still worried about WW and getting her back. I've been having thoughts the past cpl days of her and OM and I'm not sure why. Haven't really had those thoughts running through my brain since July and early August. Doing my best to push them out, but it'd had me a bit down. In the car on the way back, though, I felt lighter and more ready to take on this thing. It was a good feeling.
I'm not sure where W stands in her process w/ Ls. She retained one on 7/28, but I haven't seen anything from it yet. Reading Fade's stuff obviously has me on edge, probably rightfully so. I'm finding myself very concerned about the custody piece as I can't imagine losing so much time w/ my D.
One thing W has done is reschedule a sleepover D had from Sunday night, to tonight. She also mentioned to D that she had a friend at the beach this weekend and they might get stuck in this hurricane. W tends to say things to D when trying to craft a story for my benefit. That combined w/ the rescheduling of the sleepover has me wondering if W is going to make something up so she can see OM Sunday and part of Monday. W still says she's NC w/ OM "for a bit" bc it's "clouding things" right now. Assuming that's a lie and this weekend it'll be interesting to see what she does. Gut tells me she goes.
Trying to set myself up not to be hurt again like the past 2 times she's done this. Going to be tough if she does go, but my goal is indifference upon her getting back. At this point though I need to figure out consequences for this stuff. Too much cake eating and taking advantage of me. Getting ridiculous.
Sending my team home from work early on this holiday Friday. I'll cover this place until 5pm then hit the gym and head home. Unsure what the weekend will bring but my focus is on D and myself. WW is becoming less and less of a burden on my soul, but she has her moments. Almost feels like the lull before the storm right now. We'll see.
MV, cheesyt, fade, appreciate ya'lls support and thoughts! Please, as always, feel free to tell me when I'm being blind/stupid/oblivious! Thanks to everyone!
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
In the kitchen I notice there's a large, empty wine bottle in the fridge, and a wine glass drying in the drying rack. Unsure why W is drinking every evening and keeping such weird hours.
lt0402 - I think that one thing that most of us lose sight of is that our W are not necessarily the rational beings we used to know. They are on their own journey that has it's own struggles. In some fashion especially for those on the MLC road from what I've read it's an incredibly bumpy, painful ride through the fog with no real destination in sight.
She may well be more scared than you are. You're putting a plan together, you're getting more confident on your own journey and you have the fine people here to support you. She's got the fire-starter brigade, OM and a bottle of wine as her guides.
Think of that the next time that she seems evil or thoughtless but know that it's a journey she has to take on her own. Your paths may cross in the fog or when you both emerge from the fog you may be in different places.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
