MLC, WAW or WW?? Who really knows? Help...pls

[Rose888]

180's and GAL have been a challenge for me. Especially GAL. It shouldn't be that hard to do right? However I've just not been able to implement it very well. I have gotten back into better physical shape though. Early on I was on the MLC diet and lost close to 25 lbs. Losing the weight was needed and I decided to excercise at the gym and ride a bike around the home. I think I do look better. If nothing I definitely feel better. So that's worked well for me. I'm not sure W has noticed but that really wasn't my motivation. I just wanted to keep the weight off so it was an obvious move. Also excersicing has been very therapeutic. Many people have complimented me on the change. Most if not all of my friends, outside our marriage inner circle, are married themselves. I really don't have strong contacts with single friends and as much as I'm craving an emotional connection with another female, I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm personally against that right now. I may have been emotionally D'd but I'm still not ready nor will I do to someone else what has been done to us. We stay busy with kids so that's a plus. I have thought about just leaving and catching a movie on my own. Just have to pull the trigger and by out there.

It'll happen.

ROE

Why don't you invite some of your married male friends to do something fun with you? GAL isn't just for people whose marriages are in trouble. It's important for people in healthy marriages too.

[CA27]

ROE, my heart is really going out to you as I read up on your story. It is so hard to really accept the fact that the M that we came to know and cherish over the years is gone. I think it's especially hard when the you and the W are still in the same house (as is the case in my sitch as well). I am still coming to new levels of coming to terms with that. It will just sneak up and hit me a random times and I get pretty sad (usually I'm alone, thankfully and I never let it happen in front of the W anymore.) The hope is to emotionally abandon the M as it was because you're right, the only way to have a healthy, happy MR with your W in the future is to build one anew from scratch.

In the meanwhile, what has worked for me is to get out of the house any second I can. I try to find places where there's an opportunity to socialize (coffeehouse, pub, even bringing the S to a playground) and I force myself to take the opportunity to interact with other people and try to strike up a conversation whenever I can. It makes me feel more connected to the world and less lonely. In just the past few weeks, I've maid a couple of new friends that I see around. I've also been reminded that everyone has a story of tragedy or heartbreak in their lives--we all have the potential to empathize and commiserate with one another.

So that's been helping me lately. That, and lots of gym time!

Just as you have to let go of the marriage as it was in order to build a new one, I feel like you have to build a new life for yourself as well.

Hang in there, and I look forward to hearing more from you and hope you find some ways to enjoy yourself.

[bigybiz]

ROE: Sorry to have met you. I too think my W is somewhere between WAW/WW/MLC. She has symptoms of all three. I feel for you. I'm sorry to hear that your GAL is having a hard time lifting off. I tell you once you get it going it will be great. I recommend doing anything different. If you wear jeans usually start wearing dress pants, if you shop at Walmart go to Target, if you buy coffee at Starbucks - carry a thermos. Breaking old patterns/routines can really launch you.

I too was a miserable mess after the BD. I made all the same mistakes as many, I took drastic steps to expose my W EA, including snooping and manipulation/deception.

My pastor gave me a copy of DB and GAL went into high gear. I was running a little, now I'm in the best shape of my life and I look great, regularly buying new stylish clothes. I not only caught up on all my neglected house projects but my home looks awesome and I've started a house reno, I bought a motorcycle, started regularly seeing old friends and made new friends too. I still struggle with detachment, but my confidence has soared and I feel great. People around me are astonished.

So change it up, call an old friend out of the blue. Take the stairs instead of the elevator, buy some new clothes, quit texting and phone someone, play a new sport, start a small business/work some overtime.

I promise the benefits will come pouring in.

[ROE]

So, I don't know if I'm experiencing touch and go's or if W is just being polite? Maybe she's temp checking me? I guess I really don't know how to tell those apart. I probably could have back in the day but,,, to be honest. I don't know who I'm dealing with anymore. So I'd like to hear from other DB'rs about what they've experienced, good / bad or indifferent. I'll take all the help I can get right now.

ROE

[RosaLinda]

So, I don't know if I'm experiencing touch and go's or if W is just being polite? Maybe she's temp checking me? I guess I really don't know how to tell those apart. I probably could have back in the day but,,, to be honest. I don't know who I'm dealing with anymore. So I'd like to hear from other DB'rs about what they've experienced, good / bad or indifferent. I'll take all the help I can get right now......

The next question is... are there different approaches that work better or worse based on the 3 behaviors mentioned? Boundaries, detachment and self management seem to be promoted in all. So I know I have to work on these things. But I'm also realizing there must be a difference with approach to a WW that seems to be unique to MLC. I think W whether MLC or not is wayward. I just really don't know if any of this work will really matter in the long run.

I think your wife's actions, with things being more "civil" since you stopped pursuing and started detaching, might be due to her feeling less pressure, or might simply due to the dynamics of pursuit and distance. You stopped pursuing, and she is feeling the lack of you a bit, and is not quite ready to dump you completely and move in with OM.

That's sort of what made me think she may be experiencing a crisis, as opposed to being a pure WW. That she dropped the bomb, but is still hanging around at home 8 months later, I mean. I thought that a WW becomes more and more enraged with her spouse's behavior, and silently makes her plans to escape. Then when the time comes, simply walks away, leaving a befuddled husband who had no idea thinks had gotten this bad, or even thought things were much better. I guess your wife's reasons for sticking around could be financial, like you said, or she might not want to go public about having an affair.

I dunno, Sandi is the expert on this. I think she considered herself as having had a MLC, then realized she was a WW, although maybe I'm wrong about that. It would be great if you could read up on her threads. I copied links to her 3 first threads from the archives for you. THAT should keep you busy for a bit LOL

Wife in MLC

Almost Walked Away Wife

Almost a WAW

As I mentioned in an earlier post. I won't move out and have no plans to file. Though I've pondered how much more disrespect I can tolerate before I feel driven to file myself. Once she moves out and makes her R(s) with OM known,, I will struggle hard with it all. But,,, my W has already committed to moving out and went to D. So this ball is already in play and I am absolutely sure she will follow up and take action on both of her threats/wants.

Well she may or may not, you have absolutely no way to know. My ex lived in the house for over 5 years after telling me he was no longer in love with me at bomb drop. Even after I gave him an ultimatum (OW or me) and filed for divorce when he chose her, he stuck around, and did not actually move out until a couple of months after our divorce was finalized. I guess this was my fault, for not forcing him to reap the consequences of his actions. He's reaping them for sure now that he and his Russian Tramp OW are married LOL, but still kind of cannot let go and texts or emails me at least once a week. It's very strange. But then, I think that he is deep in a MLC, and is not a WAH.

That's why I always say that DBing helped me to save myself. I finally got sick of his disrespect, and blaming everything that was wrong in the world (not just in our marriage) on me, being negative and hate filled about everything, including me and our sons, and expecting me to support him financially while he used every cent he had to fly over to visit OW in Moscow a couple of times. DBing and the supportive folks on this forum helped me to become strong enough to take my self respect back.

Maybe if I'd done that years earlier, we would have reconciled, because I definitely would have taken him back if he had chosen me. But since he did absolutely no work on himself in all that time, I doubt if any reconciliation would have been real or lasting, and he would have been back having EAs and PAs with Russian Green-Card-Seekers.

There is no way to predict what your wife will do Roe. And how you will feel when she does it. All you can do is keep working on yourself, and being the best dad you can be. I really think you are doing great! You are so much stronger and smarter than I was 8 months post bomb. I was still a weepy whiny mess!

one other quick note on the D aspect from my POV. For most practical purposes and basing a M on the reasons people marry in the 1st place. We are already D'd. Emotionally and spiritually anyway. The M certificate is a legally binding formality at this point. The fact is that W had checked out already. I think that was the moment of D, the moment she decided to abandon me emotionally in favor of the OM. One could argue that the D happened when she decided to have the A, emotional or physical. Though I do think choosing to engage in an A outside of one's M can be looked at as a D of marriage vows but I don't think the A is the time when someone actually checks out of the R and M. This is a different and very finite decision that happens on a different level of emotion and thinking. So yes,, I am theoretically D'd already. This understanding has helped me with detachment. The understanding that fear of losing my W and M is futile. I should not fear what is already lost and no longer available to me. I'm not giving up but trying to save something that is already gone makes no sense. Our best hope for our future is to start over again from the beginning. Maybe I'm wrong, I really don't know. But until I am certain she hasn't any interest to return then I can take heart knowing we are done with this M & R. It's a bitter pill to swallow but it's reality, it's here and it's now.

Well I agree with some of this. You are pretty smart to realize that your marriage, as you knew it, was over when she "checked out" emotionally. What you are working and hoping for now, is a new, better relationship in the future. Hopefully it will be with her. That would be the best thing for your kids. Maybe it will be with someone new. So while I agree that you are "theoretically divorced," I still draw a line between theoretical and actual divorce, and think it is important for someone to actually be legally divorced and on his or her road to emotional recovery before dating again. I know you have not said that is your plan, but I've seen over and over that it seems to be the next step for a lot of LBSs.

Anyway, I truly think you are doing great! And are making a lot of friends on here. Hang in there, dear Roe! You will have to change what ROE stands for soon, I think!

[ROE]

Hi Linda! Good to hear from you again. Thank you for your take on MLC. I will certainly read up on Sandi2's threads. I've read up on a lot of her posts as a Vet and have found her insight to be very insightful and have found that a lot of her information fits well into my sitch as well. Probably as much my own faults for wearing the "Nice Guy" suit and digging a deeper hole for myself. The fact there is an OM is proof of her waywardness. And some of what I have experienced in her spewing and actions seem to come from MLC behavior I have read about but,,, I am no expert not do I claim to be one.

So, how do I read her current actions? One minute she openly defies and disrespects with her interactions w/OM then later in the day she will go out of her way to make sure I know her meeting him was platonic and strictly innocent. Even after I show that "I don't care" she continues to want me to hear her. She also has treated me nicer at home than she has in a long time. Maybe these are no more than her trying to keep the peace and be civil, again I really don't know?? ((Shrug))

I want to tell you something that happened today that has me just baffled and confused:

As you know W wants a D and has mocked and openly ridiculed me for not giving up. Even went as far as to talk down to me and tell me she "wonders if I can even understand plain simple English". That was 4wks ago. Anyway, today she sends me a text to let me know that her work is having a "Health Screening Clinic" for next yrs health insurance open enrollment. I've been on her insurance the past few yes as her plan is cheaper and far better than our plan at my work. So for someone who a few days or wks ago was so adamant about D and spewed her disdain for me and wants a D so badly and can't make it happen fast enough,??? Why does she send me a text reminder to attend the health screen clinic for "next" yrs health insurance open enrollment? What?? This makes no sense. I've already approached my HR about our enrollment in the case of D. What is the meaning behind this? Please chime in and give me your take on this.

Thanks, ROE

[RosaLinda]

That is very strange. Firstly -- going out of her way to let you know her meeting with OM today was innocent and strictly platonic. Whether that is true or not, why should she care what you think? And secondly, reminding her soon-to-be-ex-husband to go to the health screening for next year's health insurance on her policy! It boggles the mind.

My opinion is that your wife does not know WHAT she wants. Sorry, I know that is not a really helpful answer, but she seems to be really confused. I think her confusion and indecisiveness is buying you time to show her that you are that man that only a fool would leave! Carry on with the detaching, it seems to be helping!

How does she treat your kids? Has she been spending a lot of time with them, or does she seem disconnected from them too? I wonder if her relationship with her kids could be a clue as to whether she is experiencing a MLC or just plans to walk away.

[ROE]

W is a great mom. Always has been. In fact she has a huge heart for children period. The irony is that the OM plays this card all the time. It is how I am able to decipher what may be happening in their R. It seems like when W is more attentive to me, he contacts her for a play date between my youngest daughter and his youngest son. W always allows it. Then pics show up on fb about the play date. He takes her to special places and dines her at special restaurants. Even at one point when I'm certain that W told him to not contact her so much (W) he actually contacted my 11 yr old daughter directly to see about her hanging out with him for the day. This happened w/o wife's knowledge or so she claimed. Ironically this was the next morning after my W's childhood BF called him out in person and in front of W on his friendship w/W and his intentions. There was a huge falling out that night between W & myself over that. W made threats to go to him that same night but didn't. Instead chose to come home and apologize to me. Anyway that bold sob contacted my D11 and W agreed to it by saying it wasn't fair to D11 that she should suffer for our problems. Keep in mind his son is 7 and my D11 really does not play with him. But W / OM play the "they are best friends" card. I call BS! And I've said before. Anyway I'm venting again. Point they play that card then the whole thing starts all over again. That is how I can see the cycle of thief A. It repeats and is very predictable. The other part is my W also finds him handyman work fixing stuff for other people.

Long story short, she has always been very attentive to the kids and if anything has actually stepped it up a notch. I think for guilt of what she is about to do to them or maybe so they choose to be on her side? Again, I really don't know?? ((Shrug))

To be honest, I am detaching at an alarming rate now. What seemed to take forever is now happening at lightning speed, or at least it seems that way some days. Today being one. But tomorrow I will probably become a pathetic wad of mushy nice guy and enabler. This is for sure a roller coaster ride.

Also, I am desperately in need of the emotional connection with someone who will love me back. But the thought of acting on that emotional void repulses me. Because I feel that only feeds the justification that selfish and self centered people feel. I'm on the receiving end of the damage that causes so I'm anti R outside of primary R mode. I hope to stay that way too. Anyway, I'm rambling.

Sorry in the delay to respond. I was reading Sandi2's 2st thread. I was immersed in the reading. I will go back and read more.

Best, ROE

[sandi2]

So, how do I read her current actions? One minute she openly defies and disrespects with her interactions w/OM then later in the day she will go out of her way to make sure I know her meeting him was platonic and strictly innocent. Even after I show that "I don't care" she continues to want me to hear her. She also has treated me nicer at home than she has in a long time. Maybe these are no more than her trying to keep the peace and be civil, again I really don't know?? ((Shrug))

This behavior of defiance, is your W's way of testing your reaction. You know the scenario of the schoolyard bully who will taunt you to see how you will react? At first, you may try to ignore the bully's taunting. The bully doesn't stop. Instead the taunting increases. The bully is daring you (sometimes in front of other people) to see what you will do about it. How will you react?

If you try to ignore your W's communication with OM, then she increases the dare by telling you what they are doing. It as if saying, "What'cha gonna do about it? You gonna run away and cry? Go tell your mamma?". .

Then, she switches to some other tactic to see what type of reaction she gets from it. You want to know how to read her? This is your W taunting you, to see how you will react. How far can she go..........how much will you take........

Of course I can't see or hear her, except through you. The level of anger, coldness, and meanness toward the H depends on the individual woman. Some women are very vindictive. Others want to keep one foot in the M and one foot in the single life. It all goes back to the root of resentment & disrespect. One thing I have noticed over the years is how the wayward does not seem to have the pain that a WAW does. The WAW left the M, due to legitimate reasons. The WAW's action is not based on her own selfish desires.......like the WW is known to do. The Wayward has turned her feelings for the H into vile contempt. The MLC W is another issue all together, usually coming from depression, unresolved childhood issues, trumatized experiences, tragedy, fear, etc. The outward behavior may resemble the WW a lot, but IMHO, it is what gave birth to these drastic behavior changes. What has been in the heart of that woman that grew so big, it had to come out. Maybe she hid her deepest issues/feelings for years, and then.......she begins to act as if she were a different woman.

[RosaLinda]

This behavior of defiance, is your W's way of testing your reaction. You know the scenario of the schoolyard bully who will taunt you to see how you will react? At first, you may try to ignore the bully's taunting. The bully doesn't stop. Instead the taunting increases. The bully is daring you (sometimes in front of other people) to see what you will do about it. How will you react?

If you try to ignore your W's communication with OM, then she increases the dare by telling you what they are doing. It as if saying, "What'cha gonna do about it? You gonna run away and cry? Go tell your mamma?". .

Then, she switches to some other tactic to see what type of reaction she gets from it. You want to know how to read her? This is your W taunting you, to see how you will react. How far can she go..........how much will you take........

But what is Roe supposed to do when his wife taunts him Sandi? When a kid in the schoolyard has enough of being bullied, he or she usually takes a swing at the bully.

I think Roe should continue to detach and pull away from her. Do you think he should he take a stand, give her an ultimatum, kick her out?