At the moment the OM is the knight in shining armour as he is helping to make the hurt that your wife is feeling in the marriage go away. Once he removes his armour then he is just an ordinary man with faults like anyone else.
Other OP's are right, you need to start setting boundaries for yourself. Read Sandi's WAW thread on Cadet's homework and if you can maybe speak with a DB coach to help you set these boundaries. At the moment you can't stop her from doing what she is doing but you can help yourself.
I know at the moment you desperately want an end to this so starting D proceedings sounds like the obvious answer but if you really want a chance at saving your M doing this will just play into her hands and make it easier for her. If she wants D then she needs to do all the leg work, don't do a thing to help her.
Also as you are living together still you have a great opportunity to do done 180s. For example if you haven't gone out on your own much before then start doing that now but don't tell her what you are doing or where you are going. At the moment it sounds like she is swanning of out and expecting you to stay at home with the kids. Beat her to it!
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
180's and GAL have been a challenge for me. Especially GAL. It shouldn't be that hard to do right? However I've just not been able to implement it very well. I have gotten back into better physical shape though. Early on I was on the MLC diet and lost close to 25 lbs. Losing the weight was needed and I decided to excercise at the gym and ride a bike around the home. I think I do look better. If nothing I definitely feel better. So that's worked well for me. I'm not sure W has noticed but that really wasn't my motivation. I just wanted to keep the weight off so it was an obvious move. Also excersicing has been very therapeutic. Many people have complimented me on the change. Most if not all of my friends, outside our marriage inner circle, are married themselves. I really don't have strong contacts with single friends and as much as I'm craving an emotional connection with another female, I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm personally against that right now. I may have been emotionally D'd but I'm still not ready nor will I do to someone else what has been done to us. We stay busy with kids so that's a plus. I have thought about just leaving and catching a movie on my own. Just have to pull the trigger and by out there.
It'll happen.
ROE
ROE 48/WW 49 M24 Childrenx4 BD1 Jan 2016 EA/OM conf'd by WW : BD2 Apr 2016 WW wants S : BD3 May 2016 WW wants D Oct - Separated Dec - PA confirmed Jan 2017 - I file for D / Enough is Enough
Hi Roe, I am looking at your thread and see what seems to be very common here on the boards. However, I realize it is not common for you! This is your W, your MR, and your life.......so it is unique for you.
I think I saw where you referred to her as MLC. Is there something specific that makes you think she is suffering from mid-life crises? You didn't give much information about her childhood or her relationship with her family. As far as you know, did she experience any traumatic events in her younger years?
You paint a picture of a very close MR, and even say you were BF's and soul mates. Yet, she complained of feeling neglected of emotional intimacy, or something similar. Like most H's you thought everything was fine, until her "friendship" with this OM crossed the line. By then, she was ready to fight you, in order to keep the OM.
Until I see something else that could indicate a MLC, or if Wonka spots it, I am inclined to believe your W has become wayward. I see many things that ring loudly of WW. I will give you a few examples from what you posted:
Quote:
W spewed the most hateful things at me from: "she did not love me, she had stopped loving me many years before that, the only reason she stayed was because we started having kids, she was not attracted to me, being intimate with me was horrible and more like a job.
Rewriting history. Resentment and anger comming out through her hateful spewing. Trying to hit you where it personally hurts you worse.
She refused to give up OM and said she was not sure she wanted to stay M'd.
Open disrespect, defiance, and rebellion.
In the mean time OM is very much in the picture. They communicate all the time. Originally secretively hiding and carrying phone everywhere when that never was the case. She is now openly meeting him and corralling support from friends ( mostly new friends ) in favor of their relationship. She stopped being intimate shortly after BD1. She is very conscience of her looks more so than normal. She spewed constantly for almost 6 months.
More of the same anger and rebellion.
her favorite catch phrase... "it's my turn to be happy" or "I'm entitled to finally find my happy"...
Classic WW selfishness! Entitlement!
I don't know when, but at some point in your MR, she felt resentment toward you. She did not let it go. That gave root for more resentment and it grew. The resentment sprouts feelings of disrespect. When those negative feelings are held in the heart of a woman, it will affect her desire for her H. Whether she is sexually high drive or low drive makes no difference. It affects her emotional in-love feelings for her H. She no longer admires him as a man and as her H. Her respect is gone, and it affects everything. She begins to rebell within her heart.......and finally, she openly rebels against her H and her M.
When you see her through the lens of resentment, disrespect, and rebellion.......and you see the selfishness growing by leaps & bounds.........then you see how a W of 22 yrs would choose an inappropriate "friendship" over her own H. You begin to see how out of character she has become, and wonder what happened to girl you married.
She constantly tests you by her open disrespect. That is why she doesn't bother to hide her communication with him. She openly sees him, which is a slap in the face of her H. She has given three bomb drops! Each time, she was challenging you.......and you did nothing, apparently. So, she has been able to stay in her home and receive all the benefits of being your W.......but not having to behave like your wife.
There are several reasons she could be stalling about moving in with the OM or filing for divorce. But I promise you, her reasons are not in your favor. I don't know what actions you have taken or what the daily interaction has been, but I dare say that from her VP, you are passively taking whatever she dishes out.
Until she has consequences for her behavior, she won't return to being the loving W you once knew.
I have several threads about the mindset of the WW, if you care to read them. I am so sorry your MR has come to this crossroads. It can be saved. Given the right circumstances and responses from you, she won't remain in this wayward state. You are not in a helpless position, but you have to have a certain attitude (IMHO) to save this M.....and yourself.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hello Sandi2. Welcome to my thread! I am a student of your advice to this board. I have read your threads about the WW and found them to be extremely insightful to our sitch. I will reread again as it normally takes constant review for me. Things just aren't sinking in with me right now.
Yes, you are correct. At the very beginning at BD1 I was more assertive and yielded better results, but as time passed maybe a few weeks I became weaker and fell into the grief of losing my W and M. I think like a shark she must have smelled blood in the water and her soul went black in one of her spewing sessions. Ironically what prompted that session and her entire motive was in the defense of the OM and the thought of losing him. This was the 1st threat of D. I felt myself back down and I think it set the tone. Ironically this was almost immediately after our 1st MC visit. We went 2 more times and each time the C's only fed her justifications, even after she admitted that she was conscientiously aware that her R w/OM was wrong. She blamed me for the relationship during that visit and has repeatedly said OM also blames me for their R. This is just absolutely absurd. I trusted them both. In hindsight a clear lack of our implementation of moral boundaries has plenty to do with this problem as it is. And I know that respect or "lack" there of is also earned. So I have in my past earned her right to not respect me. I have to figure me out and not make the same mistakes in the future, with or w/o my W. I suppose in the case of W & OM saying they "blame me" for their R they may want to "thank me"the next time instead since things are so great between them. Anyway I'm steering off course.
After I backed down she has gone totally Rebellious or Personal Apostasy (new word for my vocab). I have read your threads about the NG syndrome and I definitely have crawled into that rabbit hole. Since late June I have made concerted efforts to not be a push over. But since I am deep in that hole I have tried to do it in a way that is not being an @$$hole about it. You see one of her biggest complaints about me is that I was always angry. So how do I draw up boundaries and enforce them without showing unwarranted anger or what she can claim as anger. This has proven to be a challenge for me because even during a calm conversation she pulls the anger card out and either spews or completely leaves and goes and does who knows where and what. That does not go w/o saying that I am not holding my ground better. She is showing signs of frustrations with my not backing down and has upped the anti in her rebellious behaviour especially about the OM. She knows this is my Achilles heel or her going for the jugular. She does this with all knowledge of the pain she is inflicting. The only difference is that now she is openly bringing OM into her circle of older friends and to beat all she is building his R with our children. Remember, he has been around us for a long time and was a very close friend to our family for years. So flaunting OM to me by making sure they as well as kids with or w/o W are going places and doing things w/them. Together they have changed him into "Disney Dad/Uncle/Buddy/whatever". I have reached a point now where I have lost respect a lot of respect for her and I am very bitter about our MR as it is. I do think the only hope left is to S or even D. As much as it breaks me to think that way, I feel there is no other recourse or option left on the table. However, how long or whether I choose to continue standing after that is still not decided on my part. It all depends on how she conducts herself. But given the fact that she has no respect for our M, R or for me I do not have high expectations for a favorable outcome.
Our past history during the on/off dating was that when we are together we are inseparable and soul mates. So when apart or broken up we completely take different paths and go NC from the 1st day of the breakup. Each time (twice before / pre M) she ended our R's and literally within a matter of days would be deeply involved with another man and would stay loyal to him while acting as I do not exist, even when she married during the 2nd breakup, until she has some sort of an awakening. At which point she always breaks NC and finds me. Since I have never found a committed R with anyone else for lack of any detachment from her, I have always willingly went back to her or she came to me, I really don't know which, kind of the chicken/egg riddle. However those days were a long time ago and the stakes are much higher now. Ironically FIL has told me recently that he does not understand why she has been so wayward all of her life. Mind you we met when we were in our early teen yrs, so I know her and her family extremely well from early on. Yet FIL tells me that during our breakups he knows 1st hand that her dating other men and her 1st M were only to punish me. This was never discussed between he and I until late June of this yr. I was completely floored, hence my recent decision to detach and question if any type of future R is worth the effort? She now has an open history of waywardness and a 1st hand witness to her pervasive need to "punish and hurt" me, in his own words. He even has advised me to seek a D as soon as she moves out as he seems to know what is next. I believe he is thinking of how history will likely repeat itself. Ironically during one of her spewing sessions she was bold or evil enough to clearly look me in the eye and not only tell me that she "does not and has not loved me in such a long time" but that she "has experienced falling deeply in love with other men before our M and is absolutely certain that she will fall deeply in love with another man after our D". Talk about crushing one's heart and spirit... that one all but ruined me. So when FIL spilled his heart to me about my W and her waywardness, the obvious hit me like a ton of bricks...
Not only has she been wayward in our current MR and in our past R's BUT... she was also wayward in her past R's with the other men she loved and loved her back when she would come back to me!!!
Wow, what a revelation. So yes I am a very short distance emotionally from just dropping the rope and letting her walk only if I don't do it myself 1st. But... I am adamant to not leave the house and family. It's W that wants out and she must do the dirty work and move out as well as file for the D. That I'm firm on. Our children need to know by our actions "who" abandoned the M and family as we once knew it.
As for MLC, I do suspect it but I'm not really sure. Like I have mentioned, I have known her and her family from a very early age, since Jr High School days to be exact. We lived within walking distance from each other so we were constantly with each other when not broken up. Both her parents adored her and showed her plenty of love. She is an only child and the hardships suffered as a family were financial (as they were poorer than church mice) and her parents had an equally poor marriage and relationship. FIL was openly verbally abusive to MIL and W has always resented that about him, yet she was emotionally much closer to her dad than mom and as a teen she would also openly disrespect her mom. However, that changed completely as she became an adult. She became very defensive of her mother and openly challenged her father when he was being disrespectful to MIL. She is close to both today but does show resentment to FIL which never happened as a kid. Something happened between them while during one of our breakups as I could never figure out why the change. I did speculate that FIL was wayward in his marriage. Not so much with OW's but he was defiant toward his wife in other ways, porn addiction as well as illicit friendships outside the marriage, again not with OW's but with not very good influential male friends. This may have something to do with issues of her past, I really don't know. As kids she would briefly show me signs of pain about this but do to the nature of touchy subjects we never really got into any real depth of the subject about her parents and their relationship. I waited for her to speak and she never did.
Ironically she has compared our M to that of her parents and has said that she refuses to have the same M. What I do not understand is that our MR has absolutely nothing to do with or compare w/her parents MR.
She has also compared our MR to that of my parents MR and again ours has nothing to do with that MR either. And yes, my parents MR also was dysfunctional. My mother was bipolar along with other disorders which turned my father into a workaholic to avoid being home. They never really got along and she eventually became a WAW returning apx 3 yrs later to my father during my early young adult yrs. Ironically after my father passed my mother walked away from us once again and has remained NC for almost 13 yrs now.
Maybe there are similarities but to be honest I have found very little between our parents MR and ours. I do know from past history, when W and I have any arguments about anything, she shuts down and lets things fester then in due time she checks out and we have a break up. Maybe the same pattern in her past relationships, IDK?? ((shrug)) The only difference so far has been that she has always returned to me, but I am not counting on that to happen again. I think once we are officially done then we are done for good.
Maybe I was always her "rock" and always was the "safe" place to land for her. I've always validated her and have proven that I have loved her unconditionally in the past by always being there when she needed someone the most. She was always able to transition from a failed R to a safe and familiar one for her security with me, again IDK??
So this response is extremely long and I am not sure what else to add. Please let me know what else I can provide to help you get a clearer picture? I'm an open book to you right now.
ROE
ROE 48/WW 49 M24 Childrenx4 BD1 Jan 2016 EA/OM conf'd by WW : BD2 Apr 2016 WW wants S : BD3 May 2016 WW wants D Oct - Separated Dec - PA confirmed Jan 2017 - I file for D / Enough is Enough
Hi Roe, how is your weekend going? Are you doing anything nice with your kids?
That is a very interesting post from Sandi about wayward wives. I always tend to think people who suddenly announce they no longer love and in fact, never loved, their spouse, get involved in a EA or PA, announce they're tired of "faking it" and now it's time for their happiness, etc, are having a mid life crisis.
I'm not exactly sure what the difference is, or the outcome, really. I used to believe that MLC lasted 3 to 5 years, that's what my old marriage counselor told me, and the reason I stood for 5 years after bomb drop. But my ex has been acting wacky for 9 years now, with no sign of coming out of it.
The thing is, I think, that no matter what our spouse's motivation or reason destroying our MR, our job as the LBS is the same - to work on what is wrong and can be fixed within ourselves, make healthy boundaries to protect ourselves and our kids, and to be the best parents we can be.
Originally Posted By: Roe
It's W that wants out and she must do the dirty work and move out as well as file for the D. That I'm firm on. Our children need to know by our actions "who" abandoned the M and family as we once knew it.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. If she wants a divorce, let her do all the work. Don't move out, or leave your MBR. If she wants to leave, let her. Your children will realize who is the steadfast rock they can depend on. I think it's real important that they learn that by your actions though, as you say, and not by you bad mouthing her.
There is nothing special about me Roe. The folks on DB helped me so much, so I try to help other people but mostly by listening. And I have 2 part time jobs that I love; I work a couple of nights as an emergency room nurse (love that!) And the rest of the time have a small legal practice. Social security disability law. What do you do for a living?
Linda
Me 65, Ex 64 M 38 y 2 adult S, 4 G-Kids MLC 11/07 BD 12/09 D 3/14 Dating nice guy 7/14 Engaged to nice guy 12/17
You mentioned in your last post about W's reason for not moving out yet,,, the reason is financial. We are liquidating assets at the moment. Within the next 2-3 wks tops we will close on selling one of our properties. Once closed we will be in a much better position financially. This is when she plans to move out. So that is the only thing keeping her from physically leaving. So yes your right. Her reasons for not leaving yet are not in my favor. I think the reason for not moving w:OM now or already has more to do with her wanting to no not go full on public with the A. Our kids still don't know the full story. The older kids I think do but are staying quiet about it. I'm sure they are in denial that mom would do such a thing. I thought the very same thing myself and stayed in denial for awhile.
ROE
ROE 48/WW 49 M24 Childrenx4 BD1 Jan 2016 EA/OM conf'd by WW : BD2 Apr 2016 WW wants S : BD3 May 2016 WW wants D Oct - Separated Dec - PA confirmed Jan 2017 - I file for D / Enough is Enough
I have no prior knowledge or experience with MLC, WAW or WW stuff. Well not direct anyway. This is my motive behind all of my research and joining this forum. To me the difference can be likened to splitting hairs. Maybe in the end trying figure out MLC vs WW vs WAW is futile excercise in overthinking the sitch. The next question is... are there different approaches that work better or worse based on the 3 behaviors mentioned? Boundaries, detachment and self management seem to be promoted in all. So I know I have to work on these things. But I'm also realizing there must be a difference with approach to a WW that seems to be unique to MLC. I think W whether MLC or not is wayward. I just really don't know if any of this work will really matter in the long run. So while I'm still in R mode I have to try something. Though my most recent efforts to detach and remove the emotional doormat behaviors seem to have made things more civil at home. I'm not of the opinion that she's interested in me but it's hard not to float that idea in my head every so often. Usually there is something she says or in her actions that nullifies any thought of progress.
As I mentioned in an earlier post. I won't move out and have no plans to file. Though I've pondered how much more disrespect I can tolerate before I feel driven to file myself. Once she moves out and makes her R(s) with OM known,, I will struggle hard with it all. But,,, my W has already committed to moving out and went to D. So this ball is already in play and I am absolutely sure she will follow up and take action on both of her threats/wants.
BTW, I unfortunately have given up the Mbr awhile back. Not sure why other than I was trying to be considerate and a thoughtful husband. In hindsight? I really don't know what I was thinking and I'm trying to shed the "Nice Guy" suit. Anyway, that's all I have for now.
ROE
ROE 48/WW 49 M24 Childrenx4 BD1 Jan 2016 EA/OM conf'd by WW : BD2 Apr 2016 WW wants S : BD3 May 2016 WW wants D Oct - Separated Dec - PA confirmed Jan 2017 - I file for D / Enough is Enough
Linda, one other quick note on the D aspect from my POV. For most practical purposes and basing a M on the reasons people marry in the 1st place. We are already D'd. Emotionally and spiritually anyway. The M certificate is a legally binding formality at this point. The fact is that W had checked out already. I think that was the moment of D, the moment she decided to abandon me emotionally in favor of the OM. One could argue that the D happened when she decided to have the A, emotional or physical. Though I do think choosing to engage in an A outside of one's M can be looked at as a D of marriage vows but I don't think the A is the time when someone actually checks out of the R and M. This is a different and very finite decision that happens on a different level of emotion and thinking. So yes,, I am theoretically D'd already. This understanding has helped me with detachment. The understanding that fear of losing my W and M is futile. I should not fear what is already lost and no longer available to me. I'm not giving up but trying to save something that is already gone makes no sense. Our best hope for our future is to start over again from the beginning. Maybe I'm wrong, I really don't know. But until I am certain she hasn't any interest to return then I can take heart knowing we are done with this M & R. It's a bitter pill to swallow but it's reality, it's here and it's now.
ROE
ROE 48/WW 49 M24 Childrenx4 BD1 Jan 2016 EA/OM conf'd by WW : BD2 Apr 2016 WW wants S : BD3 May 2016 WW wants D Oct - Separated Dec - PA confirmed Jan 2017 - I file for D / Enough is Enough
