Newby here, desperate for some advice (thread 4)

[sandi2]

I think where I and several other LBS struggle is that what you're advocating in a lot of ways runs head on -- and even contradicts -- DB.

That's a pretty strong statement. What am I advocating contradicts DB? About the only thing I can think of at the moment is my VP on being BFF's with a wayward wife. The DB coaches, from what I've read, do not divide the wayward wives from the WAW. They place them in the same group, so to speak, and they advise the LBS to be the W's friend as a way of working toward reconciliation. That doesn't work with a wayward wife, b/c with a WW the issue is about respect. I have said so, many times. It's funny to me that some people can advocate exposing the WW to the entire world and nobody accuses them of contradicting DB. But let me have a different opinion on the subject of friendship.....and I am accused of running head on?

Some of us were told by WAW/WW we were poor listeners. What's the 180 for that? Teach ourselves to listen, then actually listen when she wants to talk about something, validate, etc. But then we hear that we're just being Mr. Nice Guy baking and serving all the cake she can eat. I personally was told I "didn't support" my W. I'm still not sure what the $%^& she was talking about, but moving away, remaining aloof -- all of that flies in the face of anything that might be termed a 180 in DB. I was also told I didn't do enough around the house and domestically -- but I'm Mr. Nice Guy if I vacuum or straighten or pick up groceries or decide to cook one night.

Wait a minute. First, you say that what I advocate contradicts DB, and then you follow with the that paragraph? Other than the first sentence, one could think you are implying that I was the person telling you those things. So, let me address what you've said.....not b/c I said those things, but b/c I think some newcomers do struggle when they are grasping a lot of information......and it stands to reason that it could cause some confusion.

First of all, consider the source of what you are being told. Next, realize that it's not always about appeasing your W, especially if she is wayward. By the time the H of a WW finds his way to the board, the real issue is his W's complete lack of respect for him. The way back for the MR is for him to be the man that commands respect (especially from his W and kids). For a wayward, a H trying to fix the M by applying 180's to all her complaints isn't usually successful. B/c the wayward W is angry and resents her H. Even if she doesn't openly disrespect him, she feels it. Over time, she begins to do small acts of rebellion, and finally she drops the bomb. Where the WAW or MLC may base their feelings on fear or survival, the wayward is anger. Some may contain it better than others.....but it's there in her. If you don't believe it, just try telling her no, or stop acting according to what she dictates and see what happens. Everything is about her!

Don't misunderstand what I am saying here. I am not telling you that you should not improve yourself (as some people tend to think that all 180's are about improving), but rather, I am telling you that it won't fix what's wrong with a wayward. At the end of the day, he has done everything trying to please her......but she still doesn't respect him. All she can tell him is that she doesn't have the "in love" feelings for him. However, once a WW begins to respect him; then the feelings will follow; his new improvements will be appreciated; and the MR can be successful.

Back to what you said about listening to your W, if she's complained for 20 years that you never listen to her.....then get a clue and achieve some listening skills, but do it to improve yourself.....not just trying to win her approval, hoping she won't leave you. Does that make sense? It would take hours for me to explain all of this in detail, so realize I am hitting highlights.

I doubt you need to 180 everything in your life. (I have actually seen one man who thought that was what he was being told). You may not even 180 every complaint from your W (especially is she's wayward). However, let's take the example you gave. If your W is talking to you......why would you not listen? The only times I remember advising H's not to listen and validate would be if the WW is speaking/acting disrespectfully to him (again, it is a matter of respect). I have suggested that some H's limit/cut their availability (depending on the individual stitch). I have seen some terrible female bullies. I have seen women totally manipulate the H through their moods.

I do get that you are sensitive to the reference of the nice guy. When I use that term, I am referring to the description of nice guy syndrome. If you have read the book on that subject, then you should be able to separate the actions of a man who has nice guy syndrome from the man who doesn't. At least, I think you could.....but if that is how you have always operated....maybe it is more difficult to see it in yourself. Sometimes it takes a lot of honest self evaluation to admit to our true motivation behind our actions. You should know if you are passive-aggressive and if you have allowed your W to emotionally control the MR. You should know if you have done everything to cushion her responsibilities at home and with the children, just in order for you to tolerate living with her. You should know when you mow the grass or vacuum the floor if it is b/c you don't want her in a bad mood or if it's b/c of personal pride and doing your share of the home chores. It's about the true reason behind your actions. I just think a lot of nice guys make excuses for why they really do what they do. If you are taking care of all the housework, yard work, cooking, & laundry, as well as taking care of the children's needs.....b/c she doesn't like doing it (or finds excuses for not doing it) and you know she's going to get all pi$$y about it if you say something (or if you just don't do the work and let it pile up)......and so you do it all (at least most of it), rather than deal with her temperament......then I suspect some nice guy syndrome. And, that is why I wonder if you have researched the subject.

So, it is true. You can't nice back a wayward wife. Does that mean you should act like a jerk? No, not a jerk.....just a man who won't accept disrespect from his WW.