Newby here, desperate for some advice (thread 3)

[JRuss]

JRuss, reading your posts always makes me think, for the obvious reason that we struggle w/ many similar issues.

(a) Being poor listeners -- I'm very guilty of this. My mind has a tendency to multi-task, which is to say it flashes back & forth over to other things on my mind as my W talks. I have made a concerted effort to look straight into her eyes when she talks, and pay 100% attention, and validate.

THis has probably been what I've been working on the longest -- 2+ years, long, long before I knew anything about DB. With the help of a lot of IC, I taught myself to meditate, which really helped me focus and be "in the moment", which is what you really where you need to be if you're going to listen worth a crap. I always defaulted into trying to "fix" whatever problem she was expressing, because that felt like what you're supposed to do for loved ones who are struggling, but I learned that this made her feel minimized. I'm a good listener now. I don't know that she's noticed. I'm not going back to my old way regardless of how this shakes out. I came (late) to realize it is a gift people are giving you by telling you about something that matters to them. I'm already trying to teach my son and love the fact that he's 3.5 decades ahead of me on the learning curve.

(b) Doing enough around the house -- you mention "decide to cook one night." One night is not enough! I don't know how much you do around the house, but I suggest you completely geek out on this, and do exactly 50%, no more, no less. Cook 3-4 nights a week. Not in a subservient, motherly way, but as someone taking charge. Just declare to your W, "I'm going to cook coq-au-vin tonight." Do 1/2 of the house cleaning. Do 1/2 of the laundry. Etc. Once you start doing 1/2, don't be afraid to leave the other 1/2 to your W.

This one is tougher. She loves to cook, even during the week. We've always had a loose arrangement that the one who cooks doesn't have to clean, and she hates cleaning, so I gravitate towards that. She's also a better cook than I am (I'm getting better) and, especially, can cook faster than I can, which matters given kids' schedules and the like during the week. I've tried to do the cooking and the cleanup at times, but she seems to see through this (since it upsets the ancient arrangement) as me trying to be too sweet.

(c) Sex -- dude you are ***so*** fricken lucky in that department. At least from my myopic point of view. I often find myself wishing, "just one more time...." Anyhow, I think this is where "don't believe 100% of what she says, and 50% of what she does." That is, man, if she's DOING it with you, there is *something* there. No person is such a robot that she'd do it repeatedly w/o some subconscious, animal connection there. This by itself tells me you have a chance. It might be one in ten thousand, but it's a chance. Your situation is not D.O.A. Keep the paddles handy and greased up.

I know I'm lucky. I feel a lot of guilt even complaining given what so many here are going through. I'm there when it happens, of course, and I know she gets across the finish line every time. Maybe she's really good at compartmentalizing (or maybe thinking of someone else during? Ooof), but I'd never be able to have sex with someone I was truly not attracted to. Men are biologically and anatomically different, of course, and men need to start in the mood for things to go anywhere, but you know what I mean? I'm bracing myself for new IC to tell her to cut this out, that it gives me "false hope", etc.

(d) The IC echo chamber -- before you lose hope, maybe you ought to get a bit more info on this IC. Look at her website, if any. Ask your IC about what reputation she has. But also keep in mind that if she's an echo chamber ... the primary source of ideas will be your W. So if your W still has any positive feelings about you, then her IC will echo that too. Also, if your W really does have some issues to work through, and if that IC is worth the piece of paper her license is printed on, she may help your W work through some conflicting issues in her head. You write that this IC has a "track record". Is that a datapoint of 1?

It would be great if this IC saw through things a bit, or even just played Devil's Advocate a bit before launching into "here's how we're going to get you to Happily Divorced Land". I've seen her website, and she does have dog whistle language there about "helping women navigate painful life changes" or some such. I also know that this is a referral from my W's friend who divorced about two years ago. More than pure fear of the IC, I think the worst part for me is the idea that this is a pretty good indicator of where my W is mentally/emotionally. I toy with the idea that she's maybe feeling her resolve dip a bit and needs to buy some validation, but then I start down roads that aren't helpful right now.

(e) Sandi2's point of "solid plan of action" -- I think this is very appropriate for your case, precisely because it's SO DAMN HARD to detach & GAL when your in-house. I think you need to write down a list of exactly what you're going to do, and what you're not going to do in/around the house on a regular basis. And I don't mean chores necessarily. I would include how you would communicate w/ your W, how you would express affection (if any, at least for the sake of the kids), etc. My M.O. has been to be a warm, friendly housemate, who, when engaged or asked, is very warm and kind, but generally does not behave like he's trying to coordinate his goals and interests w/ hers. Kind of harks me back to grad school days living w/ other grad students.

I get the sense though, JRuss, that, understandably, all your DB-ing still is anchored to the hope of getting your W to wake up. I think true/best DB-ing is anchored to yourself, to moving on w/o your W. It's a damn paradox.

This is definitely my weak link. I like your idea regarding a list. It will hold me accountable, which I need.

Just thinking aloud here -- and as always, what I wrote above is really me talking to myself. I am sorry to hear about the mini-bomb drop (the echo chamber IC). I might've talked a big game here, but I live in fear of mini-bomb drops every day, and I take a big breath before I open my email every time, telling myself to strap on a pair....

You're a good man, ForGump. I really appreciate the many, many times you've posted in my thread. We are kindred sprits, I think -- really wish I could buy you a beer or three!