Have to keep making the changes

[ATPeace]

Ginger1

The advice is spot on and I have been given great advice for many months

What I am doing is not working I am not even sure if it is helping it may or may not be slowing down the process but it is not making things better.

I almost feel like i should sit her down and have a talk with her i want to be able to reason with her but as I know this does not help

So develope a life for myself outside of my W and my family do the things that I want to do ....this was one the things that I was doing through the marriage that got me to this position so.....why does this feel the wrong thing to do ?

Ghost

[SH_]

PART 1
FEAR-How will you overcome it and be the man only a fool will leave?

Hi yes still around and thinking how to move in a direction

I go round and round in circles hoping to find something different and it s not happening do I really have to sell my family home and move away from my children for half the week ....is this the only way out of this mess

Sh thank you for posting I think I am getting closer to trying the water but my fear is stopping me
Thank you

Ghost

Hi Ghost.
I am glad that you are still hanging around here. I was a little worried that I ran you off with my bluntness.

How many more circles do you need to go around in before you know this is the cheeseless tunnel?
Selling your house and spending 50% of the time with your children are not a way out of the mess.
Getting up and taking care of yourself and following the advice of successful DBer's, MWD advice and DB principles are the way out.
Selling a house may be a part of the process.
Quality time with your children may enhance relationships for your entire family. The quantity of time is really a blurred line when you look at it. You do not spend 100% of your time with them now. In my experience (and it has been a sad way to learn the lesson) my time with my D's now is 1000 times more quality and appreciated by me and them than ever before. I would not have believed that if you told me that 6 months ago.
Guess what?
Someone did tell me.
I had to try it.
And now I know from experience that things can be better. You need to trust those that have moved forward and are telling you to drink the water. it may not be perfectly to your taste now, but in time it will be sweeter and more healthy for you.

The point is, you know things are not good now.
What do you have to lose at this point trying another way?

thank you for posting I think I am getting closer to trying the water but my fear is stopping me

I debated with myself as to whether I should take another go at sharing with you and encouraging you to stand up, take a step and break the cycle of defeat you are in.
I feel inspired to share some things I have been studying and working to change for myself and it is actually based in my own "fears". Now I place the word fears in quotations as I know that it is not real. It is a block that I place on myself and confuse with feelings that my body produces in an attempt to protect me. The problem is, that my body and brain are confused with what actually protects me and what really helps me grow.

Now my goal is to keep this brief and to the point, but bear with me as there are some important points that you need to know and then ponder.

“Fear is not real. The only place that fear can exist is in our thoughts of the future. It is a product of our imagination, causing us to fear things that do not at present and may not ever exist. That is near insanity. Do not misunderstand me danger is very real but fear is a choice.” Will Smith

G, please stop the insanity.
Are you seeing an IC?
Have you seen an MD about AD's?
Are you seeking out actionable things to implement for your mindset?

Look up the Ted Talk Why you don't get what you want; it's not what you expect by Jennie Vilhauer
Look up the Ted Talk When your mind works against you by Ted Powell
Look up the Ted Talk Emotional First waif by Guy Winch

For crying out loud G!! It is way past time that you do something different than you have been doing for so long and get yourself together.
No more victim mentality.
It is time to create a Victors Mentality.

Look up Brendon Burchards You Tube vid about analysis paralysis.
He points out one of the reasons you get trapped in that analysis paralysis mode is, Selfishness.

It is time to stop looking at yourself and start looking outward to whom you can serve.
Lets start with serving your children. How are they going to learn to be self confident if daddy is moping around about life. How are they going to get the things they need from a loving father if you are always down on yourself.
I am not telling you anything new here, you know there is only one thing in this universes that you can control and that is you!
Your attitude, your actions your thoughts.
No more sitting around saying, "I hope I can get to a good place" "I hope I can do it" "I hope someone will love me"
It is time to say "I will get to the good place" "I will do it", "I will love myself".

Get it together man!!!!

No more 2x4's for you my friend. You have become immune to them. This is a sledgehammer that is meant to knock you out so you can wake up with amnesia about all that you are letting stay in your mind and defeat you.

Get up and do something about your situation. DO something about you!

Peace be with you my friend. There are people counting on you. Don't let them down.

Did you watch the remaining Ted Talks?
Are you seeing an IC?
Have you seen an MD about AD's?
Are you seeking out actionable things to implement for your mindset?

G, I perceive that you are focused not he BIG decisions and paralyzed by your fear.
I asked if you are doing the little stuff that will heal and strengthen you? I have not seen that much in your threads.

Please print out what I sent you on the 20th and review it daily and incorporate small steps everyday.
I would encourage you do the same for your attempts and weight loss. you have mentioned it has been a struggle for you.
Here is a secret that I learned that I am encouraging you to try.

Start small, make it a habit, stick to it, embrace the pain, their are no shortcuts, recognize the mile posts, recommit each and every day.

G, I tried special diets, workouts, and fads for over 20 years and just kept gaining weight.
Just over 2 years ago, I got sick and tiered of being sick and tired and so I followed the secret to a T. It was fear that was stopping me.
Fear I could not do it.
Fear it was just in my genes to be over weight.
Fear of hurting or not eating what I wanted.
FEAR FEAR FEAR of failing.
Well, when I dropped the fear and focused not he little things,
I dropped 60 pounds and am more fit than I have ever been.
I did not use short cuts. I did not beat myself up when I slipped up, I did not work out or eat perfect all of the time, but I did start small, stay consistent and forgave myself when I slipped up and then re committed myself.
And in hindsight, this pattern may have saved me in my BD and the dark place I hit for several months. (Have you read my story?)
I have had to apply the same principles and steps to my mental health, my relationships and my over all well being.

I am not here to toot my horn, but I share this because friend, I feel drawn to your story, because I see way to much of me in you and your story.
Your struggles appear to not have to do anything with you W. They are deeply rooted inside of you. This is not attractive to anyone,much less your W. Hell, are you attracted to you? Be honest? I was not attracted to me. When I realized this, then I had to ask, How the heck can she be attracted to me. I had to work on that and I am making great strides. A long ways to go, but I am applying the secret up there.

When I first came to this community, things were slipping fast with my sitch. I read your story first. Yes, I remember it clearly. Your story scared the sh!t out of me. the depressive, sad, desperate and low self esteem person I read scared me to death. I jumped right out of this forum and ran, because I was looking for hope. I did not see that as I saw myself in you and thought, I was doomed because i did not believe I could make the changes in myself needed to survive.
Now things continued to decline in my sitch, and I felt driven back here and fortunately I fond some other stories that gave me hope and folks that I saw could support ad guide me and I am glad I returned as I say I was saved by the support and advice shared with me.
I believe this is why I want to lend you the same support and encouragement.
Hopefully you can take that to heart and know that if I can do it, than by golly you can to. You just have to stand up and start taking one step at a time.

This post got long, so hopefully you are still reading it and I am going to share the FEAR info in a new post so read that one as well my friend.
Please ponder these thoughts
Reply with what you can do to get moving.
You can do this!!!

[sandi2]

Good post, SH!

[SH_]

PART 1 (Be sure the you have read and pondered part 1)
FEAR-How will you overcome it and be the man only a fool will leave?

“Fear is not real. The only place that fear can exist is in our thoughts of the future. It is a product of our imagination, causing us to fear things that do not at present and may not ever exist. That is near insanity. Do not misunderstand me danger is very real but fear is a choice.” Will Smith

Ghost,

I am going to share some resources and information that has helped me tremendously as I am traveling my own journey.
I am going to challenge you to take actions that you have thus far avoided doing.
The actions will be focused on you so you can step up, man up, and become the person only a fool will leave.
Will you commit?
Will you permit me to be an accountability partner for getting on?
If you agree here is your homework to get started.

_________________________________________________________________________________________
The first thing I want you to do is google the Black Door Story.
Read several of the links. There are minor details that change, but the message is the same.
Share with me how you see yourself playing a role in the story.
Share with me how you see fear and what is through the door.

The second part of your homework is to find and watch the TedX talks for the following. You can seek out more as there are many of them, but these ones hit home for me from several angles.

1. F*** the fear, it's not real anyway! By Deri Llewellyn-Davies
2. Be The Warrior Not The Worrier - Fighting Anxiety & Fear By Angela Ceberano
3. Reprogramming your brain to overcome fear By Olympia LePoint
4. 100 days without fear By Michelle Poler

After watching each of them, share back what you took from them and one action that you will implement for yourself.

My last bit of homework is to have you ponder on the tag line you are using in your signature.

To worry or not has no affect on the outcome. But, moving forward, letting go, and making changes can.

Why did you choose this?
What are you doing to apply it to your sitch?
What do you understand the meaning of this to be?

Ghost, you have to start somewhere. And sometimes that is just starting something.
Lets put the fear to the side and get moving.

"If you live in fear of the future because of what happened in your past, you’ll end up losing what you have in the present." Nissan Panwar

“Everything you want is on the other side of fear.” Jack Canfield

"Thinking will not overcome fear but action will." W. Clement Stone

I look forward to hearing from you Ghost.
It is time to take some actions.

[SH_]

PART 1 (Be sure the you have read and pondered part 1)
FEAR-How will you overcome it and be the man only a fool will leave?

EGADS. This should say, PART 2 (Be sure the you have read and pondered part 1)

Also I apologize for the several typos. I swear I am not drinking this morning.
Stoopid spell check on this thing.
Or maybe it is just my fat fingers.
Where oh where is the edit button around here.

Thank you sandi2 for the positive feedback.

Ghost, be sure and read all of it.
It is for you brother! From my heart.

[sandi2]

Careful, someone will think you are taking lessons from Sandi in how to write loooooong posts.

[ATPeace]

SH first thank you I really cannot thank you enough I mean this I will do the home work thank you for standing next to me on this

My next thread will be more me related and I will answer your questions and I will,watch the ted talks

For now I just have a quick question somethings completely different. My 15 year old son has a messy bedroom he has tidied it a bit but it is not to my wife's level. She has asked and asked him to tidy it and he is basically sticking two fingers up saying it is my room my space I can have it how I like .

He was due to go away the end of the month with a school friend now my W is saying that he cannot go as his room is still not tidy, I can see her,point of view however I have also been more flexible about compromising through the years but how,do I talk to my W about this as I feel she will flair up at me if she does not get her way

Do I back my wife even tho I know how upsetting it will be for my son or do I go against her views and then get nailed for not backing her up

Not sure if I have totally made sense I will read the homework above
Thank you

[ATPeace]

SH i was reading your thread when I came across a post from V

This Is from V
This is an old post from my archives
Some people think that a WAW is hard, angry, cold. In a fog. There's more to her than that.

4 years ago, a woman lay in bed at night, not wanting to wake up in the morning. There was no way out. She couldn't divorce him. He would have visitation without her there to protect them. He had never hit them, but he surely didn't understand how to care for them. He didn't even know his own children.

She couldn't leave. She had no job, no way of putting food on the table for the children she loved. She had been dependent for so long, & she trusted this man to provide for her. Now she lay in bed, wondering who he was, & how she got here. These were not the choices she would have made, if she had a 2nd chance.

She couldn't talk to him. He couldn't hear her. She desperately wanted to share herself with him. He had walls up. She couldn't penetrate them. He seemed so content to work, watch TV, eat & sleep. Why didn't he want more, like she ?

She felt trapped. She resented herself for letting him treat her this way for so long. He told her often enough, he was a good husband. She needed so much more from him. She tried telling him, for years she tried, then she cried, she begged, she pleaded, but he couldn't hear.

He was cold, hard, in a fog.

She tried everything, she read every book. She prayed her heart out. She tried to be more Christ-like. Figuring if she set the example, he would follow.

She knew it came down to two choices. Her children's happiness, or hers. She would sacrifice hers. She decided to stay, & raise the children, with this man who would never know her. When they moved out, so would she. Then she would salvage what was left of her.

She put her heart in a dusty old box in the top of the closet. It was easier. She didn't hurt anymore, she was numb.

When she finally quit trying, & tried to fill her hours with distractions, he noticed. His fog was lifting. He wasn't quite so cold, so hard. She didn't care. It was too late. She was numb. Her heart was in that box. She vowed never to take it out again.

She stumbled through her days, crossing them off in the calendar. Wondering how much longer she could live this way. Did her children see her unhappiness ? She wondered, are they better off with a single happy parent, or with two parents who co-exist ? The torment was eating her alive. What to do ?

By now, she wasn't sleeping. Wasn't eating. She pulled away from all of her friends. She was dying inside. She desperately wanted, needed to be loved, appreciated, noticed, cherished. She was a beautiful fragile flower slowly dying without water, sunshine & air.

When no one was watching, she cried. She cried till she ran out of tears. She wanted it to be over, she wanted the pain to stop. Everytime she looked at her husband, it reminded her of the pain. The pain that was consuming her. She turned to alcohol to numb the pain. Anything to make the pain go away. Her friends ask her why she's putting on so much weight. She wonders, why can't anyone see that I'm dying here. She doesn't try to tell the man she shares a bed with, remember, he can't hear her.

She finally writes him a letter. She says she is done. They need to raise their children, & he's the only one who can be their dad. Now he's fully awake & out of his fog. He's scared. He had no idea how bad she hurt. He thought things were good. He's been living in a separate reality from her.

He says he'll change, he'll do anything, to make her happy. He says his family is the most important thing to him. She doesn't believe him. She's numb. Her heart is safely in that box. He tries, she watches. He tries some more, she watches. He's dying now. She's numb. Now he wants the pain to stop. She's numb. She wonders why did things have to go this far before he would hear me ? Now she doesn't want to talk to him. She's numb. Talking to him reminds her how much she used to hurt, she can see it in his eyes now. Her survival instincts kick in, at least she doesn't hurt now. She's numb.

The only place to go from numb is anger. He tries some more, she can see he's making changes. Now comes the buried anger. The anger that she wanted to express to him for all the years past. The anger she was afraid to show. He doesn't realize, angry is better than numb. He takes her anger. For 12 months he takes her anger. Sometimes he fights back, & when he does she goes numb again.

She's so scared to take her heart out of that dusty box. Numb is so much safer. Angry is so much safer. Does he know how hard it is for her. She knew the day that her children were born, that she would give her life for them. She just didn't know it would be like this.

Sometimes he tries to push her to heal faster. She's doing her best. He wants more from her at times. She's doing her best.

Some nights, the pain returns, & she remembers, & she just can't sleep. She's not numb anymore, and the anger is going away. She doesn't know how or where, but it is. She's so scared. Numb is safer. Angry is safer. If she gives in to her fear, to her sometimes overwhelming fear, everyone will call her a Walk Away Wife. She wanted you to know.


That was 4 years ago. Now, this morning I'm laying in the darkness awake again. I go to divorce court in a few hours. So much has changed. I've changed. My kids have changed. I never wanted to be divorced. I wanted my family intact. I wanted my kids to have their dad in the same house. I grew up without a father, I never wanted theirs to be absent. But.......their dad made his own choices.


He was more absent when he lived in this house. Now that he's in an apartment, when he's with them, he's sometimes actually with them. He talks to them more. He is more involved in their lives. He's taken them to dinner alone & had conversations with them that I begged him to have for years. He has taken them to doctor appointments, and been involved in getting them to and from activities. He went shopping for a Christmas tree with them the other day, he put up Christmas decorations with them. He never did that when he lived here with us. I did everything with the kids. He worked. He escaped into work. He chose not to be involved with me or the kids. He chose work.

Now that I've filed for divorce, he says he can't get a job. He's being a "consultant" and making $1500 a month, so he says he can't pay spousal support. His choice.

I was a stay at home mom for 15 years. I went out and found a job in 3 months. He has worked and made $100 K a year for the last 3 years, but now he can't find a job. His choice. I'm now a working single mom. Something I never wanted, but now I have choices.

When he and I were together, I didn't have choices. He was controlling, domineering, chauvanistic, emotionally and verbally abusive. He was withdrawn, silent, cold, and disconnected. He worked. I asked him to talk to me, compromise, take turns. He refused.

Now I have choices. I'm emotionally & psychologically safe in my own home. I'm rediscovering myself. I'm finding out that I am capable, smart, strong, and confident.

I am a kite who was meant to soar. He was an anchor. He was insecure and afraid that I would soar, so he beat me down. Verbally, emotionally, and psychologically.

I'm soaring now. I ran a half marathon two weeks ago. If I would have told him I wanted to do something like that, he would have made it sound stupid for me to even try. I didn't tell anyone, I just did it. For me, for my new self. My stronger independent self.

I was oppressed for many years of my marriage. Not at first. It started slow, gradual. He tested my boundaries to see how far he could push me. I pushed back at first, then after years of pushing, I grew tired, and stopped pushing. I let him push me further and further away from who I was meant to be.

Now.......I am finding who I was meant to be. It's stressful and anxiety ridden at times. I worry about the kids, money, what will happen in a few hours when we go before the judge and dissolve this union. But, I have no regrets. I do not want to be with this man. I would spend the rest of my life alone, broke and safe to be free of his oppression, control, manipulation, and abuse.

You may ask why I share this. I'm hoping....praying that some men/women who are controlling and oppressive and pushing their families away, will read this and wake up and change........before it's too late for their family.

Yes I walked away from my marriage, but only because that relationship was destroying me.
---------------------------------

Hope this helps

V

THIS ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ IS I Would say exactly where my W is at THIS could have been describing my W to a T .....she felt I was controlling and my actions were abusive she only told me this after Bomb Date I was never physically violent I never would be but she feels trapped

So much of what V wrote could describe me to a T

I was absent during our marriage I did not do enough with our children and now I do so much more yet to her it does not matter too little too late

I know I have FEAR
I know I have REGRET
I know I have REMORSE

SO I do,not want this to become the same,old same old post SH I have started your homework I will re rad your thread but part of me wants to hear from V is you were in an abusive relationship and if this is how my W feels her marriage was she felt she could not say no to me she felt controlled then this would very much make my W a WAW RATHER THAN A WW

On my signature I have out that my W may have had an EA I really do not believe this unless you call having conversations with males an EA

So I surpose my question to V is if my W is in the position described above then is there anything that your husband could have done or anything that I can do to reassure her ....to try and encourage her to soften her heart ....do I want to encourage her to voice her anger from many years built up unable to express her feelings. V I would love your thoughts.

Me trying to stamp my authority as head of the house is this not just going to make her feel scared and controlled ??

SH I have started on the homework,and my next thread as I said will be about the things I am doing

Thank you

Ghost

[Sotto]

Hi Ghost, I think SH has posted some wonderful advice....what he suggests is not a bad place to start at all. Try to suspend any thoughts of 'what may she think, will this help or hinder our M, won't this drive her away etc.'

The core of things here is about who you are, where you are at and who you may become. Those are the things to focus on...

I look forward to hearing how you get along with the 'homework' and reading your thoughts on where that may take you.

Good luck! X

[Vanilla]

Ghost, I didn't write the above my lovely, it is from the archives and it is classic DB.

I have a couple of immediate thoughts and will respond in Greater detail later, today is a tough day at work.

---------------------------

Ghost, something that has been saidesigned several times, I think your W is a WAW not a WW. You treat a WAW sitch differently to a WW one. In due course after your W walks away she may begin LRT and date. That does not make her wayward.

I see you as neglectful of yourself and your M, in the period I have known you Ghost I do not see you ever as abusive. Simple neglect is not abuse.

Your W was attracted to you and you made beautiful babies. So attraction is a given.

I think you cling and fret with your W, you fear being alone and as a tactic this may have worked for a while.

To be the man of the house, the leader again, is likely to be very attractive to W. This is going to be haRD work and will not be instant.

--------------------------------

If I were in your shoes

1. I would read DR monthly. We retain about 9% of what we read so rereading helps.

2. Use Sandi rules daily. I had them laminated.

3. Cease focusing on your W and your M and focus on YOU for at least 12 months. Become the best you can be.

4. Have goals for YOU.

----------------------------------

The threads I would recommend most to you is Edz, his W was a WAW too. He successful reconciled with his W and I understand is a very happy bunny these days.

It is a long journey Ghost.

SH is one of the most grounded posters here, and a safe pair of hands.

And yes, V is a WAW. I am not in any way wayward.

If you are ready to know that you can shift, then with the wonderful DB posters here you can choose to. This is a very slow fix. Which is why I think you have preferred to loop instead.

It's your journey.

And this phase is a long one, at least 12 months to become the leader of your family.

You can choose to focus forwards not backwards.

Start by smiling at that man in the mirror every day. He is a good man who stumbled, and he did not break.

V