Newby here, desperate for some advice (thread 2)

[JRuss]

Hey ForGump --

Thanks for checking in. THings are about the same at home. Pretty friendly, no intimacy. Haven't seen a reason to post much because I feel like we're in a holding pattern. I try not to acknowledge the large timer over my head ticking down to whatever date is my W's magic departure date.

She did tell me last night while we were watching the Olympics that "I was so skinny now" (I've been GALing at the gym like a wildman, have lost 30 pounds) and that I looked "like an Olympian". That's good, right? Wasn't able to convert it or build on it, although I did say thanks to her this AM for saying it.

Yes, I'm seeing an IC. Have been since about 2 weeks after BD, so almost 1.5 years. She is probably about 10 years older than me, although she might be a little older than that (hard to tell). In addition, she is a psychology professor at the local university. She's been of immense help in me getting out of my depression and to a place where I could have the mental energy to start GAL, 180s, etc. (before I even knew what those were). She has never said it directly, but I get the sense she thinks my wife is not good for me or my mental health (she's gently questioned me along the lines of what is it that I get out of this relationship, a question I honestly struggle to answer), and I think she sees these tender shoots of detachment I'm maybe finally feeling as a good long-term development. She's not a MC, and I think that, coming from the mental health arena, she thinks divorce need not be traumatic for kids, especially if there's a good counselor for them available if they need it. This is my main reason I fight at this point and fear D so much -- what it might do to the kids.

I really took to IC after being pretty hesitant when I started. I find it really great being able to talk, out loud, about what I'm going through, feeling, etc. I sort of keep my BDing to myself because, like I said, I think she thinks I should move on with my life, and I'm not there yet.

[ForGump]

Dude, 30 lbs is yuuuuge. Kudos to you. Are you @ a good BMI now?

I got hit by the "LBS diet" for a while but I'm eating again. Started running more consistently, because it's easy to squeeze in a 10-, 20- or 30-minute run in the evening; whereas my usual outdoor activities take me away from my kids for too long right now. I just can't get myself to be away from my kids for that long right now, except for work.

My IC also think my W is not good for me. "Why did you choose her? I hope the next person you choose will be nicer to you." And "you need to stop being a doormat to someone who appears to be stuck in adolescence."

She also believes that kids will be OK through/after the D. I want to talk to her more at depth about this. I hope she's right, because at this point I don't expect D to be the outcome.

[JRuss]

Re divorce and children, I always come back to the risk of bad things happening to them. Sure, they may do ok or even well. Some do. But they might not, and that's even if both spouses can pull great co-parenting off, which is hard given all of the anger that's in these sitches.

I had the thought once that if you sit your toddler down in the middle of the street, they might might happily evade all oncoming traffic and crawl or toddle over to the grass and keep on playing. But they might get run over. Even a WW knows this and wouldn't endanger their child in that way. But, somehow the risk of mental/emotional harm from a blown up family is tossed off as not something that need not be cause for worry or give pause. I finally just decided I can't ever understand what's happening in her head, at least on this point.

[JRuss]

Re BMI, I ran my height, age and weight through a calculator on the internet, and it said 81% of men with those measures weigh more than me. So that's good, I think. Looking better helps counter the self-image problems inherent in being told I'm not attractive, at least a little.

[Cherry]

It looks like quite a common theme that the WAS feels like the children "will be fine" in the incidence of a divorce. I think this just highlights the selfishness and illogical mind in all of this.

Like most things, this issue is mainly out of our control. But what is in our control is to surround those children with love and protect them the very best that we can through this. It absolutely breaks my heart when my 2 yo wakes in the night crying saying daddy's gone. But I want my child to see me as security and safety and someone that will always love and put their interests first.

[ForGump]

Oops, above, I meant to say "I expect D to be the outcome."

JRuss -- being at 19 percentile in weight is awesome. You really kicked ass. Inspiring. But yeah, I've also looked in the mirror more often every since my W told me she's not attracted to me any more.

WW attitude towards children ... well I think this is where Sandi2's point comes into play. WW is in an immature, childish, rebellious stage, where she's doing stuff she KNOWS is wrong.

I think a WAS comes at this with a different heart -- more of a capitulation. She knows it's BAD for kids, but she feels she has no better option after a long, extended battle w/ a bad marriage.

In real life, I think W's have some mix of WW-ness and WAS-ness. Your W sounds to me like she's more WAS than WW.

[ForGump]

p.s. I don't mean to imply that WAS's are doing the right thing. I think your W should be having some honest and mature conversations with you, and work with you see if problems in the marriage -- and unrealistic expectations -- can be addressed.

[JRuss]

ForGump re WAS/WW, I don't really know what the right label is for her. If she really thinks she fought a long battle, I see that as pretty delusional. She fought it in secret, I guess, but kept me completely in the dark until finally blindsiding me when I was at my lowest moment post-surgery. Anything approaching "working on it" or engaging in any way with me, though (what I'd call "fighting" for a marriage)? Nope. Not a single second of that. Not a single second of MC. Nothing. So she can say she's long suffering or whatever helps her sleep at night as she slowly strangles the life out of our family, but she CAN'T say with a straight face that she did much of anything -- let alone everything she could -- to try to save our marriage and our four-person family. It is a lie, despite what her #$^% friends might be telling her.

I'm really struggling this AM questioning what it is about me that wants so badly to be loved by a woman who clearly doesn't want me, hasn't for years and is just going through the motions. I should have a lot more pride than that, and on a lot of days, I do. But certainly not every day. Some days, like today, I feel like I'm right back at square one. I tell myself that I'm fighting because I don't want the kids to be hurt and possibly endangered emotionally, and there's definitely some of that, even a lot of that, in my answer to the Why do I keep fighting? question. But, at the same time, if I'm honest, there's something pathetic inside me, like a puppy, that just has a blind, completely dependent need to be loved, even if it's by someone who kicks me around and treats me badly and has been very clear that it won't change. Which of course is needy and not attractive, and so here I am, stuck on the merry-go-round that is my fake life.

[JRuss]

Cherry -- thanks for visiting my thread. I was letting myself feel very sorry for myself this AM, which is a feeling I've grown to hate, and, knowing your sitch, and knowing you're still able to muster that sort of spirit in the face of just about the worst spouse behavior I could imagine, is inspiring. Thank you.

[ForGump]

She fought it in secret, I guess, but kept me completely in the dark until finally blindsiding me...

This is EXACTLY how I felt and when I was in the pleading/reasoning phase, I argued this exact point w/ my W. "How could you say we worked on it when we simply didn't? You suffered your grievances all by yourself, and made up your mind all by yourself. Don't we deserve a chance to work on this together?"

In my case, my reasoning has ZERO effect because she had already dived head first into an EA. I would've thought that someone who wasn't in an EA/PA would give that some consideration.

I can't say why the hell I'm so in love w/ my W. Even when I summon all my power of memory to think about all that is wrong w/ her ... it helps a little but just at a visceral level the love and attraction is all there. Isn't that partly what love is? Do we have to be able to dissect and unravel it like an onion? But yes, I also struggle with Why the hell can't I let go of her.

Whether you can ultimately pigeonhole her into WW or WAW is probably not that important, but recognizing the degree to which she is feeling rebellious, reckless, immature and/or there might be an EA/PA is important, I think.