My wife thinks we're piecing (2)

[Buxom]

EDF, sorry to say it would come off as controlling and she may either agree and resent it or agree and send species and still do what she wants. No win here. At least there may be a chance of building some trust with just wishing her a great weekend. Hard to do, been there and cried that, but I got a happier WH and better convo and connection than I thot I would. Truth is if they want to cheat, they will. I've had to let go of that, hard as it is. I'm not 100% there yet and I continue to work on it daily and try not to borrow trouble by anticipating it.

[EDF]

Thanks for the input Buxom. I think the challenge for me is that I agree that would definitely be a bad move with an actively wayward/disrespectful spouse, but some of those guidelines change when/if you're piecing. For instance, asking for device passwords, suggesting MC, etc can go from being unhelpful mistakes (when spouse is actively rebellious) to a helpful part of the healing process when the spouse is willing to put in the effort to break contact with AP and do what is needed to rebuild things.

So my thought is it becomes more a question of a) is the sitch really piecing? and b) if piecing, how much "transparency" is too much?

That's where my uncertainty comes from.

[Buxom]

I understand more now. Thanks for the distinction!

I'm still so new to all this and something's I read here are confusing.

[sandi2]

Regarding this weekend, she has decided to not go to the wedding shower, but has said she may be visiting friends while I'm out of town for my event. Would it be reasonable transparency to ask her to call to check in with me and send me selfies of her with her friends, or would that be smothering/controlling? Would it be inappropriate for me to ask her to come to my event instead and avoid any solo stuff for the moment?

Being alone, with you out of town for the entire weekend, is not a wise decision. The fact she is pulling back some, is a sign she needs to be monitored. If she doesn't understand how she will experience withdrawals from the OM.......and if she doesn't understand what is required of her at this time.......I think she will refuse to cooperate.

If she won't go with you, then her sending selfies with her friends (and not old one) is one way she could account for where or who she is with. Do you know these friends? Do they support her affair or that lifestyle? Will she be going where she would see OM? Three weeks is just about right time for the cravings to really start bothering her a lot.

You really must explain how things have to work until she is through the withdrawals and is earning your trust again. Do not put this off!

Btw, an unlearned WW will accuse her H of controlling. You must not let that bother you. She doesn't want anyone in charge, but if the H doesn't take charge, the MR will be in the toilet.

[EDF]

Thanks for the helpful advice Sandi.

I talked with W; tried to keep it brief, but thanked her for the transparency (with devices, schedule, etc) so far and mentioned my concern about her being away. I pointed out I wanted to get to a place where I could trust her fully again, but that my trust in her was damaged from the months of lies and her chipping away at it... if she was serious about rebuilding, then a good way she could reassure me would be being super transparent when she was away - send me selfies of her having fun with her friends, or (if shopping) outfits she is trying on, etc.

She agreed. She made a comment about not really liking it, but understanding why I wanted that and that if that's what it took she would be willing to do it.

So that was a positive start, but during the same conversation I mentioned how she had previously said she would be willing to do MC and I think we should definitely look into that to help us rebuild, and help us work through some things. She claimed she didn't remember agreeing to that (BS), and she didn't like counselors (true), and she didn't think one was needed as she "already knows what she needs to do". She made the classic "I just want us to move on and forget this" comment.

I didn't push on that at this point. Upset that she reversed on that point, and think it will be needed if we to really rebuild, but if she's not ready for MC yet I don't see any value to forcing it.

A handful of other comments seemed genuine nice, some seemed passive-aggressive. Overall a mixed bag.

Since the talk she has seemed to be making a bit more of an effort, but there's still a subtly weird vibe. Part of me wants to just suppress it, but last time I ignored my intuition she was having the EA.

If I had to define what my intuition/gut is telling me, it's that she is still in sporadic online contact with OM in some fashion. I have no proof, and I'm not going to accuse her of anything based just on my intuition, but I definitely will continue to keep my eyes open.

Time will tell I guess, and in the interim I will just keep improving me, and monitor what kind of effort she's putting in.

[sandi2]

She made the classic "I just want us to move on and forget this" comment.

Yes, it is classic, and that probably has a lot to do with the real reason she doesn't want to deal with a MC. She just wants to sweep it under the rug.

I probably don't need to warn you that with the attitude she currently has, her transparency isn't going to last very long.

If she should repeat her statement about knowing what she needs to do, why don't you ask her what that is? If she gives you any self-centered response, then ask her if she knows what you need? Check her attitude, b/c that is a measuring stick that tells you where she is in the relationship. If she's haughty, resentful, agitated and doesn't want to discuss a plan to use, avoidant, easily irritated with your needs from her, etc.......then you will have a good idea how much she's really piecing.

Remember, whenever she says things like she just wants to move past it.......tell her, "It's not that simple anymore".

[EDF]

Thanks for the insight Sandi.

I continue to work on calling her out more or following up on when she says things that sound off; definitely a work in progress as I have 17 years of bad habits there. I'm starting to catch more of those opportunities and it's slowly feeling more natural. I'm more used to the initial push-back now and do not tend to be staggered by it anymore. When I am being reasonable and standing firm, she will buck at the reins but eventually comes around.

It reminds me a lot of some leadership training I had years ago, that drew parallels to training young horses to be rode. I mean that in as respectful and non-chauvinist way as possible, but the WW really does seem like a rebellious young horse in need of firm handling. Not in a cruel or domineering sense, but in standing firm on important things and setting/enforcing boundaries and the LBS responding appropriately to por behaviors (i.e. all the stuff the boards recommend). The horse doesn't like the bit, or the feel of the saddle on their back at first, and will fight against them relentlessly and misbehave to the extent allowed. However, once a mutual understanding is established, the horse and rider can do some very impressive things.

I like the "it's not that simple anymore" line.

Journaling.

W could tell I was pulling back a bit after our R talk, and I think it freaked her out - she kept asking me if anything was wrong and I would respond like "Nope, I'm doing fine". She sent a bunch of texts trying to explain her recent funk and ultimately has been putting more effort into things.

We went to a fair and concert together and had a good time. During a couple of songs they were giving the mic to audience members to sing a line - cutting out the band and just having the audience person sing - and I was one of the people they gave the mic to. W was amazed I actually want rather than ducking out.

I went out of town for my first 5k Mud Run/Obstacle Course Race. W stayed home. Frankly I was very tempted to skip the trip to avoid the "apart" time, but made myself go and had a blast. W was being communicative via texts and I verified via phone how that W was a home body. Course was incredibly fun and made me feel like a badass - highly recommended. W could tell I had a great time and really regretted not going. I'm already looking for other mud runs to do - I think I will make that a new thing for me.

[EDF]

Journaling.

Last few weeks have been pretty good. I did another mud run 5k, and spent a couple hours at an obstacle course training camp - lots of fun. Am keeping up on my exercise and maintaining my lower weight. Flew with W to visit relatives and had a relaxing trip.

Haven't had any real R talk since the one last month. Planning to suggest we go through a R book together... something with Couple activities; not sure which one yet.

Things aren't perfect certainly, but I've been getting less weird vibes. Covert phone GPS continues to have her always where she says she is, and she will make gestures like e.g. sending me a picture of an outfit she likes if she is shopping. W seems very considerate most of the time and has been doing a pretty good job following through on what I've asked. If the EA hadn't happened I would say things are going great.

She is occasionally in a funk, but I work hard to remind myself that I didn't cause the bad mood and I can't make her happy. I focus on not taking it personally (since I didn't cause it), perhaps ask if she needs anything, but otherwise just leave her space to deal with her own crap. When I do that, I find she gets back to normal a lot quicker. Her moods like that used to cause more of a feedback loop between us where my reaction (either angst at her being upset or me trying to fix things for her) would make things continue to deteriorate.

One of the major things I'm still continuing to work on personally is being less of an ultra-accommodating nice guy. Little things like when W tells me to pick a pizza place, I always used to try and ask/guess where she wanted to go and feel like if I got it wrong it would be a big deal. Working on just pulling the trigger and making definitive decisions more.