Episode 3 - The Divorce Awakens

[Cld]

Betterman,

I agree with everything you said except the kids being resilient.
The kids might look resilient now but they will be totally messed up when they become adults and they have their own relationship.
Look at my wife. She is doing what she is doing because her mom got divorced when she was 7. She is the result of her traumatic childhood. I have seen kids with divorced parents becoming criminals, prostitutes, hanging themselves and having multiple kids with multiple women and running away. Divorce and separation are huge problems, don't kid yourself, and they are going to scar the kids for life.

[betterman77]

Betterman,

I agree with everything you said except the kids being resilient.
The kids might look resilient now but they will be totally messed up when they become adults and they have their own relationship.
Look at my wife. She is doing what she is doing because her mom got divorced when she was 7. She is the result of her traumatic childhood. I have seen kids with divorced parents becoming criminals, prostitutes, hanging themselves and having multiple kids with multiple women and running away. Divorce and separation are huge problems, don't kid yourself, and they are going to scar the kids for life.

Cld,
I didn't mean to insinuate that my kids won't be scarred in some way from my divorce. But I've also seen kids become those things you mentioned above while growing up in a home with two parents who love each other. I believe it all depends on who's raising them. My parents divorced when I was 4. Did it scar me for a while? Yes it did but I realized as I got older that it was for the best. Did I become anything you mentioned above? No I didn't because my mother raised me right.

[Cld]

Statistics
63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.
90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.
85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)
80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)
71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)
Father Factor in Education – Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.
Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.
Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.
Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.
75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.
Father Factor in Drug and Alcohol Abuse – Researchers at Columbia University found that children living in two-parent household with a poor relationship with their father are 68% more likely to smoke, drink, or use drugs compared to all teens in two-parent households. Teens in single mother households are at a 30% higher risk than those in two-parent households.

70% of youths in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (U.S. Dept. of Justice, Sept. 1988)
85% of all youths in prison come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Fulton Co. Georgia, Texas Dept. of Correction)
Father Factor in Incarceration – Even after controlling for income, youths in father-absent households still had significantly higher odds of incarceration than those in mother-father families. Youths who never had a father in the household experienced the highest odds. A 2002 Department of Justice survey of 7,000 inmates revealed that 39% of jail inmates lived in mother-only households. Approximately forty-six percent of jail inmates in 2002 had a previously incarcerated family member. One-fifth experienced a father in prison or jail.

Father Factor in Crime – A study of 109 juvenile offenders indicated that family structure significantly predicts delinquency. Adolescents, particularly boys, in single-parent families were at higher risk of status, property and person delinquencies. Moreover, students attending schools with a high proportion of children of single parents are also at risk. A study of 13,986 women in prison showed that more than half grew up without their father. Forty-two percent grew up in a single-mother household and sixteen percent lived with neither parent

Father Factor in Child Abuse – Compared to living with both parents, living in a single-parent home doubles the risk that a child will suffer physical, emotional, or educational neglect. The overall rate of child abuse and neglect in single-parent households is 27.3 children per 1,000, whereas the rate of overall maltreatment in two-parent households is 15.5 per 1,000.

Daughters of single parents without a Father involved are 53% more likely to marry as teenagers, 711% more likely to have children as teenagers, 164% more likely to have a pre-marital birth and 92% more likely to get divorced themselves.

Adolescent girls raised in a 2 parent home with involved Fathers are significantly less likely to be sexually active than girls raised without involved Fathers.

43% of US children live without their father [US Department of Census]
90% of homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes. [US D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census]
80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes. [Criminal Justice & Behaviour, Vol 14, pp. 403-26, 1978]
71% of pregnant teenagers lack a father. [U.S. Department of Health and Human Services press release, Friday, March 26, 1999]
63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes. [US D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census]
85% of children who exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes. [Center for Disease Control]
90% of adolescent repeat arsonists live with only their mother. [Wray Herbert, “Dousing the Kindlers,” Psychology Today, January, 1985, p. 28]
71% of high school dropouts come from fatherless homes. [National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools]
75% of adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes. [Rainbows f for all God’s Children]
70% of juveniles in state operated institutions have no father. [US Department of Justice, Special Report, Sept. 1988]
85% of youths in prisons grew up in a fatherless home. [Fulton County Georgia jail populations, Texas Department of Corrections, 1992]
Fatherless boys and girls are: twice as likely to drop out of high school; twice as likely to end up in jail; four times more likely to need help for emotional or behavioral problems. [US D.H.H.S. news release, March 26, 1999]
Census Fatherhood Statistics
64.3 million: Estimated number of fathers across the nation
26.5 million: Number of fathers who are part of married-couple families with their own children under the age of 18.
Among these fathers –
22 percent are raising three or more of their own children under 18 years old (among married-couple family households only).
2 percent live in the home of a relative or a non-relative.
2.5 million: Number of single fathers, up from 400,000 in 1970. Currently, among single parents living with their children, 18 percent are men.
Among these fathers –
8 percent are raising three or more of their own children under 18 years old.
42 percent are divorced, 38 percent have never married, 16 percent are separated and 4 percent are widowed. (The percentages of those divorced and never married are not significantly different from one another.)
16 percent live in the home of a relative or a non-relative.
27 percent have an annual family income of $50,000 or more.
85 percent: Among the 30.2 million fathers living with children younger than 18, the percentage who lived with their biological children only.
11 percent lived with step-children
4 percent with adopted children
< 1 percent with foster children
Recent policies encourage the development of programs designed to improve the economic status of low-income nonresident fathers and the financial and emotional support provided to their children. This brief provides ten key lessons from several important early responsible fatherhood initiatives that were developed and implemented during the 1990s and early 2000s. Formal evaluations of these earlier fatherhood efforts have been completed making this an opportune time to step back and assess what has been learned and how to build on the early programs’ successes and challenges.While the following statistics are formidable, the Responsible Fatherhood research literature generally supports the claim that a loving and nurturing father improves outcomes for children, families and communities.

Children with involved, loving fathers are significantly more likely to do well in school, have healthy self-esteem, exhibit empathy and pro-social behavior, and avoid high-risk behaviors such as drug use, truancy, and criminal activity compared to children who have uninvolved fathers.
Studies on parent-child relationships and child wellbeing show that father love is an important factor in predicting the social, emotional, and cognitive development and functioning of children and young adults.
24 million children (34 percent) live absent their biological father.
Nearly 20 million children (27 percent) live in single-parent homes.
43 percent of first marriages dissolve within fifteen years; about 60 percent of divorcing couples have children; and approximately one million children each year experience the divorce of their parents.
Fathers who live with their children are more likely to have a close, enduring relationship with their children than those who do not.
Compared to children born within marriage, children born to cohabiting parents are three times as likely to experience father absence, and children born to unmarried, non-cohabiting parents are four times as likely to live in a father-absent home.
About 40 percent of children in father-absent homes have not seen their father at all during the past year; 26 percent of absent fathers live in a different state than their children; and 50 percent of children living absent their father have never set foot in their father’s home.
Children who live absent their biological fathers are, on average, at least two to three times more likely to be poor, to use drugs, to experience educational, health, emotional and behavioral problems, to be victims of child abuse, and to engage in criminal behavior than their peers who live with their married, biological (or adoptive) parents.
From 1995 to 2000, the proportion of children living in single-parent homes slightly declined, while the proportion of children living with two married parents remained stable.

[Ginger1]

Betterman,

I agree with everything you said except the kids being resilient.
The kids might look resilient now but they will be totally messed up when they become adults and they have their own relationship.
Look at my wife. She is doing what she is doing because her mom got divorced when she was 7. She is the result of her traumatic childhood. I have seen kids with divorced parents becoming criminals, prostitutes, hanging themselves and having multiple kids with multiple women and running away. Divorce and separation are huge problems, don't kid yourself, and they are going to scar the kids for life.

Eeek. I know you are hurting, but this is really just as true for kids who grow up in intact homes. Especially intact homes. Or are living with parents who are miserable.

My parents divorced. I'm pretty successful. I'm not a prostitute or a criminal. I'm a nurse. I might be divorced, but that not because my parents were .

My daughter is a beautiful loved little girl. she's going to be an FBI interrogator one day:)

Is it best for a child to be in a home with 2 parents who love each other? Sure, absolutely? Will not being in a home with both of their parents at the same time be their demise and their future is doomed?

Absolutely not.

It doesn't have to be that way. Like better man said. Be their rock and you won't really have to worry anymore than the average person raising kids

[betterman77]

I'm not going to argue with those statistics but each situation is different and MY kids are not growing up in a fatherless home. My XW and I don't live together but we share custody which means I get them 50% of the time. I fought for that. I grew up in a fatherless home and I learned a lot from the man about being a father, I just did the opposite. I am there for everything they do and they see that and I'm sure that if we had stayed together so our kids wouldn't have to grow up in a broken home that they would be worse off.

[qt4x11]

Thanks SH_, cld and betterman-

I know I haven't been posting a lot. I've been trying to really focus on responsibilities instead of endlessly ruminating over the traumatic circumstances of my divorce, this forum is very addictive in that respect. I do however really appreciate all the support you guys have given me.

[SH_]

Statistics
63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.
90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.
85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)
80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)
71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)
Father Factor in Education – Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.
Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.
Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.
Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.
75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.
Father Factor in Drug and Alcohol Abuse – Researchers at Columbia University found that children living in two-parent household with a poor relationship with their father are 68% more likely to smoke, drink, or use drugs compared to all teens in two-parent households. Teens in single mother households are at a 30% higher risk than those in two-parent households.

70% of youths in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (U.S. Dept. of Justice, Sept. 1988)
85% of all youths in prison come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Fulton Co. Georgia, Texas Dept. of Correction)
Father Factor in Incarceration – Even after controlling for income, youths in father-absent households still had significantly higher odds of incarceration than those in mother-father families. Youths who never had a father in the household experienced the highest odds. A 2002 Department of Justice survey of 7,000 inmates revealed that 39% of jail inmates lived in mother-only households. Approximately forty-six percent of jail inmates in 2002 had a previously incarcerated family member. One-fifth experienced a father in prison or jail.

Father Factor in Crime – A study of 109 juvenile offenders indicated that family structure significantly predicts delinquency. Adolescents, particularly boys, in single-parent families were at higher risk of status, property and person delinquencies. Moreover, students attending schools with a high proportion of children of single parents are also at risk. A study of 13,986 women in prison showed that more than half grew up without their father. Forty-two percent grew up in a single-mother household and sixteen percent lived with neither parent

Father Factor in Child Abuse – Compared to living with both parents, living in a single-parent home doubles the risk that a child will suffer physical, emotional, or educational neglect. The overall rate of child abuse and neglect in single-parent households is 27.3 children per 1,000, whereas the rate of overall maltreatment in two-parent households is 15.5 per 1,000.

Daughters of single parents without a Father involved are 53% more likely to marry as teenagers, 711% more likely to have children as teenagers, 164% more likely to have a pre-marital birth and 92% more likely to get divorced themselves.

Adolescent girls raised in a 2 parent home with involved Fathers are significantly less likely to be sexually active than girls raised without involved Fathers.

43% of US children live without their father [US Department of Census]
90% of homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes. [US D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census]
80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes. [Criminal Justice & Behaviour, Vol 14, pp. 403-26, 1978]
71% of pregnant teenagers lack a father. [U.S. Department of Health and Human Services press release, Friday, March 26, 1999]
63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes. [US D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census]
85% of children who exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes. [Center for Disease Control]
90% of adolescent repeat arsonists live with only their mother. [Wray Herbert, “Dousing the Kindlers,” Psychology Today, January, 1985, p. 28]
71% of high school dropouts come from fatherless homes. [National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools]
75% of adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes. [Rainbows f for all God’s Children]
70% of juveniles in state operated institutions have no father. [US Department of Justice, Special Report, Sept. 1988]
85% of youths in prisons grew up in a fatherless home. [Fulton County Georgia jail populations, Texas Department of Corrections, 1992]
Fatherless boys and girls are: twice as likely to drop out of high school; twice as likely to end up in jail; four times more likely to need help for emotional or behavioral problems. [US D.H.H.S. news release, March 26, 1999]
Census Fatherhood Statistics
64.3 million: Estimated number of fathers across the nation
26.5 million: Number of fathers who are part of married-couple families with their own children under the age of 18.
Among these fathers –
22 percent are raising three or more of their own children under 18 years old (among married-couple family households only).
2 percent live in the home of a relative or a non-relative.
2.5 million: Number of single fathers, up from 400,000 in 1970. Currently, among single parents living with their children, 18 percent are men.
Among these fathers –
8 percent are raising three or more of their own children under 18 years old.
42 percent are divorced, 38 percent have never married, 16 percent are separated and 4 percent are widowed. (The percentages of those divorced and never married are not significantly different from one another.)
16 percent live in the home of a relative or a non-relative.
27 percent have an annual family income of $50,000 or more.
85 percent: Among the 30.2 million fathers living with children younger than 18, the percentage who lived with their biological children only.
11 percent lived with step-children
4 percent with adopted children
< 1 percent with foster children
Recent policies encourage the development of programs designed to improve the economic status of low-income nonresident fathers and the financial and emotional support provided to their children. This brief provides ten key lessons from several important early responsible fatherhood initiatives that were developed and implemented during the 1990s and early 2000s. Formal evaluations of these earlier fatherhood efforts have been completed making this an opportune time to step back and assess what has been learned and how to build on the early programs’ successes and challenges.While the following statistics are formidable, the Responsible Fatherhood research literature generally supports the claim that a loving and nurturing father improves outcomes for children, families and communities.

Children with involved, loving fathers are significantly more likely to do well in school, have healthy self-esteem, exhibit empathy and pro-social behavior, and avoid high-risk behaviors such as drug use, truancy, and criminal activity compared to children who have uninvolved fathers.
Studies on parent-child relationships and child wellbeing show that father love is an important factor in predicting the social, emotional, and cognitive development and functioning of children and young adults.
24 million children (34 percent) live absent their biological father.
Nearly 20 million children (27 percent) live in single-parent homes.
43 percent of first marriages dissolve within fifteen years; about 60 percent of divorcing couples have children; and approximately one million children each year experience the divorce of their parents.
Fathers who live with their children are more likely to have a close, enduring relationship with their children than those who do not.
Compared to children born within marriage, children born to cohabiting parents are three times as likely to experience father absence, and children born to unmarried, non-cohabiting parents are four times as likely to live in a father-absent home.
About 40 percent of children in father-absent homes have not seen their father at all during the past year; 26 percent of absent fathers live in a different state than their children; and 50 percent of children living absent their father have never set foot in their father’s home.
Children who live absent their biological fathers are, on average, at least two to three times more likely to be poor, to use drugs, to experience educational, health, emotional and behavioral problems, to be victims of child abuse, and to engage in criminal behavior than their peers who live with their married, biological (or adoptive) parents.
From 1995 to 2000, the proportion of children living in single-parent homes slightly declined, while the proportion of children living with two married parents remained stable.

89% of statistics are made up on the spot and 97% are wrong.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics.” - Mark Twain
I have to call this kind of post a bit insane.
Let's says the first stat is accurate. We will give the benefit of the doubt to the first statistic listed here and say that without a doubt 63% of teenage suicides are from fatherless homes.
For the sake of this, let's say that there are 100 suicides and 63 are from the fatherless homes.
What about the 1000 teenagers from fatherless homes that did not get counted, because they in fact did not commit suicide. Apply that process to all of the stats listed here and we can then end the conversation that kids will all be scarred without a doubt due to divorce.
Because that is simply an outrageous, insensitive, and unnecessary comment to make here. You are entitled to your opinion, but let's keep it to that. Folks are looking for hope, not an end of the opportunity for kids due to divorce predictions.
I'm sorry, but this post bothers me, because it sounds as if you are spreading a doomsday message for folks here and that is just nonsense.

I follow 2 very successful men and their work and both came from broken families. Tony Robbins and Eric Thomas. Funny thing is that their fatherless home was actually the fuel that set them on the path to success so I'm gonna go with betterman77's advice here qt and say that will better serve you and your desired path. There are many more successful folks out there that come from divorced parents.

The only statistic that needs to matter for you qt, is the statistic that involves you and your children. You can make it 100%, by being there for them 100% when they are with you. Focus on making yourself a better person, man and father with 100% of your energy, focus, and ability. You are the master of the outcome as a father. Not some insane statistics trying to show that your kids will be scarred. Plain and simple.

Bedside manners here could certainly benefit everyone in this community.
2x4's are a benefit when one is spinning around making poor decisions, but to come in here and spout off such chatter about the sky is falling and the kids are doomed is just insane. C'mon now have some compassion and keep this stuff in your own thread if you need to spout it off due to your own pain or struggles.

qt,

Please don't feel the need to apologize for not posting. This community has some great benefits and some very supportive people who have survived what you are going through and they are now thriving. Yes it can be depressing and overwhelming and even addictive to come in here, well, because sometimes misery likes company.
Take a break if you need. I certainly have several times and will likely do so several more times.
But I have found some phenomenal support and virtual friends unlike anyone I know.
So, step away if needed, ask for support if needed, and do not fall for any doom or gloom that is put in front of you.
You are a good dude. You will do the best you can for your kids and they will love and cherish you and be thankful for all that you do.
There is work to be done, but you can do it by making the decision to do so.
Put in the work, the prayers, the love and the self forgiveness.
Trust me, there are more success stories for the kids from divorced homes as well as for the LBS's out there than you can know.
Just be open to them and they will present themselves.

Be well my friend. Let me know how I can support you. Have a peaceful week.

[betterman77]

The only statistic that needs to matter for you qt, is the statistic that involves you and your children. You can make it 100%, by being there for them 100% when they are with you. Focus on making yourself a better person, man and father with 100% of your energy, focus, and ability. You are the master of the outcome as a father. Not some insane statistics trying to show that your kids will be scarred. Plain and simple.

This is perfect right here QT. Well said SH.

[qt4x11]

There’s so much water under the bridge at this point, I’m wondering how would it even work to reconcile? Once your families and friends know, and everyone has taken sides - everyone becomes sort of negative towards the ‘other side’, and there’s that much more negativity towards us getting back together. Also, the legal process keeps chugging along, every week there are new walls being thrown up between us, making it that much more difficult to overcome this situation. And the truth is basically that these things are her doing, and everything is going along according to her plan.

My ‘DB coach’ says that her avoidance is due to the fact that, if she were talk w this with me I'd try to persuade her to slow things down and change her mind - and she doesn’t want to feel vulnerable again. So she’s ‘protecting herself through distancing’. My ‘DB coach’ says that the ‘least interested person in a relationship has power over a relationship’, and ‘if she has felt in the past she didn’t have power in the relationship she is not likely to let go of that power’. This is insightful - I’ve made my wife feel unappreciated in the relationship, it’s one of her complaints.

Last week was like a series of bombs going off in my life. I was starting to feel like I was feeling more in control of things, but then 3 divorce related things happened that totally destroyed me again. I’m only starting to feel like I’m feeling a little better today, which is 4 days later. On Wednesday, we had our ‘intake’ for our ‘court ordered mediation’. We had to meet at a court building and sign up for mediation at the end of next month and then two weeks later at the beginning of the following month. We sat in a room and barely looked at each other while the mediator talked about the upcoming mediation - it is to decide child care schedules basically, during the second mediation the children will have to be present. This of course destroyed me. Just thinking that the kids are being brought into this process kills me. They do not deserve this. I feel a certain animosity towards my wife for giving up so quickly on us, and putting my kids through this along with me.

The next day I had a meeting at work. Probably the best thing that happened last week was that I totally killed at this meeting and received some emails filled with praise from some very high ranking people in my company. The president of the company was in on this meeting as well. I’m happy about that. Because I had to give my presentation at this work meeting I did not attend the hearing for ‘temporary child support and maintenance’. My lawyer went, and called me up to ask me questions throughout the day. This process was very difficult for me. The gist of this meeting was that I now had to pay temporary child support and maintenance - the saving grace is that their side got way less than they asked for. But it’s still a huge mental adjustment for me to think that a large chunk of my paycheck will go to pay for my kid’s care in another house, when I’m not even there, and will go to support my wife’s ‘single lifestyle’. We also decided to begin dividing up our bank accounts and bills. I get to keep the Audi. Another bomb drop, I go to bed that night thinking that my world is exploding around me and there’s nothing I can do to stop it.

My kids were with me overnight last Thursday night. Their aunt, my cousin, came over with her kids and all the kids had a great time playing. I have to say that my family is really gathering around me at this time and offering so much support. One final bomb drop. On Friday morning my wife came to pick up my kids, she was going to drive them to visit her family out of state for the weekend. She arrived to pick them up driving a new car. Actually an older used minivan - but it was a new car that she bought seemingly overnight as I now get the Audi (and the privilege of paying the monthly payment on the Audi). New car? I ask her. Used car - she says. We make small talk about where she got it and the features of the minivan. Then I say - so, we’re about to start dividing up our bank accounts, and you bought this new car. It feels like we’re about to take a big step… are you sure you want to do this? She says - yes I’ve thought about it. I ask her why she is pushing ahead so fast without even talking about it with me first, and we never had a chance to talk about it. She says - that’s because if we talk about it you would argue with me about it. She says - I want to get along well with you, and I want to talk to you about everything - but not now, later after we’ve done certain things. I hang my head dejectedly and walk away. Walls being thrown up between us. I spend all weekend processing all of this and forcing myself to concentrate on doing work.

There is one more thing to say - over the weekend I met someone on a dating app. I had basically lost all hope in reconciling with my wife and in order to occupy my time and soothe my ego I go on Tinder and meet someone. We wind up talking all weekend and have a date set up I think tomorrow. I know I’m not emotionally ready for dating, but there’s something about her. She is beautiful, and she’s going through a divorce also in almost the exact timeframe as mine. And we have so much in common it’s almost spooky. I don’t know what’s to become of this new woman - but then again I don’t know what’s to become of anything.

[Altair]

45 and met someone on Tinder... inspiring! Maybe down the line for me, too. I think it's nice you met a woman to talk to, and is in your position. I think it's a good distraction and sounds like you need one, plus an ego boost as well!