The Fight for Self

[sandi2]

I do wonder, why is this up for debate?

The DB coaches encourage being their friend. As I have said before, they don't separate those who are wayward. I won't say that I was the first one on the board to say not to be friends with the wayward wife, b/c I don't actually know for a fact. I don't remember seeing anything opposing the idea of being buddies, unless it was Puppy (I can't remember). He had well knowledge of the WW mindset and what she is capable of doing. Anyway, there were very few back then that even used the term "wayward". I resented that word, terribly, b/c it stomped on my WW feelings too much. But I got over it.

I see H's who get the no-buddy system down pat, but then when he reconciles....or is in the process of working on the reconciliation, he doesn't seem to realize that that is when he can begin building the friendship with her. You see, I am not against H's & W's being best friends. I am against a H trying to be her BFF when she is wayward. He cannot nice her back from waywardness. She disrespects him! I don't understand why men don't see that you can't be friends with people that resent and disrespect you! You have to have the WW's respect before you can be her friend.....or she will eat you alive.

You (we all) will either be closer to or further apart from your spouses in due course (you might dance back and forth - you have before so why not again?).

This is why timing is so important. The H has to use tough love with a WW. He cannot be some soft marshmallow who doesn't have the guts to stand up for himself. He has to take charge of his life and stop acting as if he is her employee. He has to be a leader over his own family and home. If she has been something resembling Hitler, then she isn't going to meekly hand over her power. She will give him trouble every way she can. He has to stand firm and not back down to fear, her bullying, her anger, or whatever. He has to firmly establish his role in the family, the home, and his M. He cannot afford to compromise his standards and beliefs just to keep her from divorcing him. She can respect it or she can leave. And he must not be afraid of her leaving. At least, don't show her he's afraid of her leaving him!

Now maybe to you that is a picture of getting further apart from your spouse, but to me it is what needs to take place IN ORDER to get closer. Don't you see? She has to learn to respect you, first, before you can get closer. You cannot get around it. Women are wired to where they have to feel respect for their H before they can desire him as a lover. Now, you tell me......is that so complicated? Just b/c that's not the way guys are.....you should still be able to understand the formula for her.

I am taking one thing from this. Giving less of a sh!t is working for you CT.

Sure, it works! B/c it helps the H to detach and let go. So what if she gets mad and throws a fit? Who cares? She uses her anger to control! Women who throw fits and bully, do it to control. If you guys have not learned that by now, please jot it down. When she sees she cannot bully her H to get her way, then she'll try a different way to get it. (But that's another lesson).

FG, RSG all have a different sitch. and part is driven by the W responding differently and our acting differently. For example, I feel my wife is DBing me with no contact etc at present.

All W's may not respond exactly alike, but if they are wayward, their goal is the same. Want to know what it is? To be free of everything she deems made her unhappy, and to go out there and find the life/man that fulfills her needs. Her selfishness will override any nice-guy attempts to convince her to give the M another chance. Selfish desires trump everyone and everything. So, however she may respond to him, he'd better be tough enough to handle her.

Been thinking, perhaps the way to deal with it is to truly accept, and not want a life without the W? Not sure how much pushing for it is a good idea but.....perhaps that is it. I mean if you were really out there picking the ideal mate, given the history - really? This particular brand. If you were advising your child who was picking their spouse (not meaning to be rude about anyones W BTW) - I mean really. So yes being very cool right now seems perfect.

You make a good point. It is so sad to see how most H's will spend all their emotional and physical strength trying to make things work with his WW, and when he is completely exhausted and cannot mentally get through another day of the b.s.........he finally gives up and lets it go. Then, he does what he should have done in the first place.....but he wouldn't follow our advice and he went with his emotions. Now, she starts seeing him with different eyes b/c he doesn't want her any longer. Talk about a couple whose timing is out of sync!

It all looks so clear in your Stiches as I read them. Yet mine confuses me. My DB Coach says do the nice things (i.e. should I pick them up from the airport etc - sounds like eating the entire cake shop not just a slice to me), yet on here I see a more distant approach. There's a fine line between lovingly detaching and being cold.

And this makes me want to pull my hair out. (Again, to my knowledge, the coaches do not separate the wayward wives from the others). And why do you see a thin line between lovingly detaching and being cold? Have you ever had any experience with discipling children? Maybe not. If you have, then you can understand (especially with teenagers) how you must be firm with boundaries, house rules, respect, and dealing with them as they rebel against everything you stand for. It calls for tough love, but the parent doesn't have to give them a cold shoulder and not talk to them. You have to communicate very plainly what will not be tolerated. And if they choose to do anyway, you enforce a consequence for their action/behavior. You do it b/c you love them more than life itself. But you have to be the one in charge. To me, that is similar to the H and his WW. It may hurt like heck to stand up to her and not give in to whatever.....but b/c you love her, you can do it as long as she is acting like a rebellious teenager. This, to me, is lovingly detaching. You have to detach from what your emotions may want.....in order to be the lighthouse that guides her back.

Also, I gather from DB Coach that its all about lovingly detaching, yet still doing the things they appreciate etc. You seem to differ a bit on this. Can you clarify please - as my DB coach keeps telling me not to try mind read and predict what she is thinking? At present my WW has is definitely very dark on me.

Have I explained where you understand why the coaches give you different advice from what I say? I respectfully disagree in their advice, if it's a wayward wife. I do not agree with grouping waywards together with some poor woman who left the M b/c the H was beating her and the kids. Makes no sense at all, to me. If he was an abuser (for example), then I would definitely agree that he needs to get therapy and fix himself, then he should try to build a friendship and do nice things for her. That just makes good sense. The heavy lifting is on his end. But if the W is wayward and showing all this hateful disrespect and rebelling against everything in the MR........then the heavy lifting is on her end. However, it won't come about until she comes out of that WW mindset.