Detaching.....nearly there..

[Surfer]

Added a signature for ease of following. Hope it helps.

[Cherry]

Man, it sounds like a tough time. My heart goes out to you not being able to see your babies every day. And the fact that your ww is out sunning herself in a lifestyle funded by you must really make you angry.

I do believe detaching and GAL works, the best part is it truly saves your sanity and protects you from the waywards crazy train. Though I know exactly how you feel because the way my situation is at the moment, I feel like there's no coming back from this. Still we must stick with the process and have faith, as like I say, if nothing else- it will protect and save ourselves so their venom can no longer hurt us

[sandi2]

I just can't see her really suffering loss at the absence of her LBH if she has access to money, holidays, friends etc. From what I read from Sandi, without this loss she is unlikely to change. Unless I am missing something here.

You may be correct about her not experiencing loss of the things you listed. All you can control is your part that contributes to her cake eating. Otherwise, it's pretty much out of your hands. But let me quickly add, that there could be something valuable to her that you have not thought about her losing. Life has its way of issuing loss, know what I mean? For example, when I was a WW, I did not lose any of the things you listed, but I lost respect. (And, had I continued on the path I was headed, I would have lost those things you listed, too.)

My family had always held me in high regard for my values, standards, and strict spiritual beliefs. I had always treasured having a good name all my life. I had taught and counseled others, and was well respected in our community. Above all, my own children respecting me was something I wanted to maintain. Unfortunately, in my fogged out WW mind, I wasn't thinking realistically about how they would react to everything.

Loss of my family's high respect was my precious "loss". Maybe for some people, it would not be that big of a deal for them. My family's respect was very valuable. Yes, I was forgiven by my family.....but I will never hold the place of respect that I once had. And, I knew it was nobody's fault but my own. So, you just never really know what her precious loss might be, that will wake her up to what she's done.

[Cherry]

That is great advice from sandi, and something I hadn't even thought about before. I guess we don't really know what this "loss" is exactly that they would loose.

[sandi2]

The sooner they see they can't continue going down their wayward path and have all the benefits the way it use to be, the sooner they will start to wake up. That's why I harp about the LBH's enabling the WW. If she treats him like cr@p and acts like a girl gone wild......and knows he is home crying over her, doing all the work at home, and will give her anything she wants......do you think she's going to wake up and see the destruction she's done? The only thing that wakes up the WW is something that emotionally jars her into seeing herself for what she's become, and what she has done to the ones who loved her the most. Depending on what it is will determine how long it may take her to repent. And, depending on the individual woman, of course.

That's why having R talks don't work. That's why catering to her doesn't work. That's why you can't convince her by talking. It just doesn't work. Most LBH's have a problem accepting that they can't get her to hear them.

The cases that I've observed that really shook the WW to her soul, were when the H's had the courage to either kick her to the curb, or he left the day he found out about an A, and she would know she had lost him. It would set her on a course to try and win him back, which meant she had to fix herself. Funny how it seemed to completely kill her affair desire.

But when he waits, hoping she will come around ......then she's not worried about losing him, or losing anything else. He's in for a very long time of her abuse. His nice-guy ways are not going to have a lot of impact on how short a period of time it takes her to come out of the waywardness. She is rebelling and she will devour his nice-guy behavior.

If my H would have packed a bag and told me he was leaving and that I could get by the best way I could......I would not have been carrying on as long as I did. It would have yanked me around to see how I was losing him forever. But instead, he waited around....hoping I would stop doing what I was doing. He would look so sad and lonely, but all I thought about was myself.....and how "I" was the one who was leaving him. It never entered my mind that he would tell me to get out and that he didn't want me! Neither did I consider he might walk away. Why? B/c he had that nice-guy syndrome.

Btw, I even told him that if I left him that I hoped we would still be friends! Sickening, isn't it? Well, he managed to shock me. He looked at me and slowly shook his head, no. While never taking his eyes off mine, he said, "There will be no buddy-buddy system". He also told me that if I ever left, there would be no coming back. That is about the most he said (not a big talker), but it got my attention. Managed to cause me to do a little more thinking before I finished packing. Tended to knock a little wind out of my pseudo self-confidence.

[Cherry]

This is really interesting, would you say this is the same the opposite way round with a lbw with a wh sandi?

[Surfer]

Cherry - thanks for this. Yes, its tricky. I kind of want to focus on the finances, as that funds her WW lifestyle, but I almost cant do much unless I go for the D, which I don't want but is she coming back...., not unless she changes. I need to give it some time, watch and see what happens I think. Just not let her eat cake and no contact (or only about kids). No favours etc. I have decided not to pick them up from the airport when they get back. She can have that lonely journey back alone.

Sandi - always left open mouthed when I read your posts. Absolutely spot on. I will read and re-read them. Thank you. I think the shock of her saying to her mum "its like he doesn't trust me any more", and her responding "I can understand why he feels like that" - absolutely rocked her. So perhaps her loss might well be some of that but unfortunately, blood is thicker than water and regardless of the close bond I had with MIL, FIL, Family, they are all cutting ties and my W has forced those cuts. This protects her from those shocks I feel.

I think I just have to really detach, GAL and face her with a b@lls on approach to that nosey neighbour without coming across as pi55y etc. Just kind of oh "really?...interesting?". Otherwise no contact....

[sandi2]

Cherry, I do think it basically works when the roles are reversed. I think the dynamics or makeup of the male wayward H's and his female LBW are somewhat different from the WW & LBH. The waywardness in a woman begins in her heart when she harbors resentment and disrespect for her H. That seems to be the root that grows into larger problems. The woman is wired to where she has to feel respect for her H in order to feel loving desire for him. Therefore, the LBH has to start at that point..........respect.

When the man is wayward, I think he has to see his LBW completely let go of him and see her as an individual who does not depend on him. I believe it easier to draw the WH back in the MR, b/c of the way is wired. However, she won't do it if she is nagging and spewing on him. The clinging, crying, and begging has to go. She needs to be like she was when he was dating her. He needs admiration, show of respect, peace in his household, sexual desire from his W. He needs to see his W happy. He needs to see his W having a calm, sweet, attitude. He needs to see his W looking attractive. He needs to break the boredom........especially in the bedroom. I won't go on about it b/c I don't have a man's makeup.

These things I've stated came from books I have read. You can gather information about what men need to be happy, what makes them attracted to a woman, etc., on the Internet. Funny how women seem to know how to get a man..........but then she changes after M, and she stops doing what she did when he fell in love with her. She stops being that woman.

I have heard and read from men who say that they are not as complicated as the woman........so take that as a plus.

[Cherry]

Thanks for that sandi. I'd like to think there is no nagging or spewing on my part. I barely see or speak to him so that kinda helps. The thing that rings out to me there is a few days after he said he wanted a d, we took s out, and he said to his mom- she looks so unhappy, I just want to see her happy. At the time I thought what a jerk, how does he think I'll be happy after what he has just said.

Another thought re happy. He says that he cannot find a fault with me, he just feels unhappy and sometimes feels he doesn't want to be married, and he doesn't want to hurt me or make me unhappy.

Interesting.

[Buxom]

Wow cherry, that all sounds so familiar! It is interesting when it doesn't hurt so much.
My WH said on more than one occasion that he'd have been gone long ago if I hadn't been so nice and kind and steady. He's more recently called me very patient and long suffering. I think or hope that means these guys have a clue and they are trying to work it out?
Hang in there!