Keep Wearing Wedding Band?

[JRuss]

ForGump -- I'm really sorry to read this this AM. Hang in there. Keep returning to those feelings you were having about deserving better. They are true and spot on.

[sandi2]

That helped ease the pain, and I started to think about not wanting to be seen as anything less than a H by my W -- don't want to be some castrated best friend -- and I started to feel like what she's doing is really immature and adolescent, which made me feel like I deserve better. Those thoughts gave me just enough courage that when I got home I put up a good front, did not act pitifully hurt.

[ForGump]

Thanks again all for your kind thoughts & attention. There are lots of well-meaning friends and family around who are aware of what's going on but I have to say most are all goddamn useless. Self-serving echo chambers and fire-setters. Or well-meaning limp noodles. This online forum has its own frustrations, but between it and my IC ... well, I could do worse for support. I would like to have also tried the DB phone consult but at this point it seems imprudent financially -- especially since the shite is about to hit the fan in terms of finances.

Which leads me to the second thing I want to vent here: talk about WW/MLC being adolescent. My W has the lifeskills of an 18 year old, and is unable to grasp what a D would mean economically for our family, until she's knee deep in it. Then her reaction is likely to be anger towards me, and self-pity and hatred, which she has plenty of ... but strangely mixed with certain shards of narcissism. As we negotiate the practical terms of our D, I expect all kinds of hell to break loose.

And for some WW/MLC (it seems from reading here), the practical realities of a D is a wake up call for them, and that triggers a reconsideration of the D. But I have zero expectation that my W would do that. And it seems consistent to me. Because WW/MLC is not about someone being rational -- a WW/MLC has become unhinged, and is madly pursuing her emotional cravings, while running away from the suffocation of a rational, stable, negotiated partnership with a H. Right? So why would the economic consequences of a D wake up a WW/MLC? No, I expect it to just make my W more contemptuous of me.

All of these realizations/expectations about my W ... they don't help me feel any better for my kids. They are deeply family-oriented kids, and it will shatter their world to be told that we are splitting up.

[ForGump]

p.s. With respect to the subject of this thread, "Keep Wearing Wedding Band?" ... Some weeks ago I took off my ring because I had finally given up. And I gave up because I fully accepted that my W had given up. Then after posting here, I realized that I don't care whether my W had given up. For me the M was still there. So I put it back on for myself, for what I wanted. And I'm glad I put it back on and kept it on, because it speaks to me. And I think it speaks to people around me about where I stand. It boils down to the oft-repeated mantra in this forum: it's about what you want and what you can control, not about controlling your WAS/WW/MLC. I kept it on for me.

[CT1118]

And for some WW/MLC (it seems from reading here), the practical realities of a D is a wake up call for them, and that triggers a reconsideration of the D. But I have zero expectation that my W would do that. And it seems consistent to me. Because WW/MLC is not about someone being rational -- a WW/MLC has become unhinged, and is madly pursuing her emotional cravings, while running away from the suffocation of a rational, stable, negotiated partnership with a H. Right? So why would the economic consequences of a D wake up a WW/MLC? No, I expect it to just make my W more contemptuous of me.

All of these realizations/expectations about my W ... they don't help me feel any better for my kids. They are deeply family-oriented kids, and it will shatter their world to be told that we are splitting up.

You know, number 6 of the 37? Don't discuss w/ family & friends - this is your fight. I think you got that. I still feel like you are mind reading/predicting what WW will do per the quotes above. The realizations when studying about MLC or WW or anything else are not to help you get your W back - only to facilitate a basis of understanding for your own knowledge. WW's will not make sense, I believe you understand that, so drop expectations. Dropping expectations is not losing hope. Do not predict what she will do.

You are the one who has to be better for your kids. You feeling better will help them feel better.

I share this with you...this morning I met with IC. I told her that my number one concern in my life right now was for me and for my own well-being. She said "you have a son, please expand this idea." I told her that by putting my well-being and health first I would not only be able to meet and exceed the needs of my son, both as a father and a male role model. That taking care of me would not only be my greatest gift to myself, but to him as well. She agreed and said she just wanted to know how I arrived at the statement.

That said, nothing alleviates the pain we feel for our kids my brother. We just have to keep being the best we can be as an example for them to learn from. They will one day be old enough to decide for themselves what really happened - it is the example we lead by today that will make all of the difference in the world tomorrow.

[JRuss]

Point of clarification, CT1118, please? I always took the no discussing with family/friends as no discussing with your WW's family and/or friends. Are you (and the rules) saying we shouldn't be talking to OUR family and friends? That hardly seems prudent to me. You're essentially down, then, to your IC and the posters here in terms of support, and I'm not sure that's enough, at least not for many who find themselves in this crappy situation.

[AndrewP]

JRuss - I personally get a lot of comfort from friends and family but I also recognize that they are as ForGump so well put it, echo chambers, fire setters and wet noodles. It helps me be stronger knowing that people I care about care for me but other than my one SIL who has counseled me to be very patient I ignore their advice.

I also worry about the fire-setters in the crowd and have deliberately excluded them as well as requesting that everyone understand that I want WW to come back and that they will need to accept her too if that happens. One of the people who has been a big help is a friend who doesn't know W went through a very mess D making every mistake in the book. He's hauled me back from the brink more than once before I made a stupid mistake. I had reached out to him fairly early on to get advice on how to survive the D that I thought was imminent.

So my advice is to keep the group small and meaningful otherwise you may start something you can't control and to remember that (generally speaking) that they have even less clue about what they are talking about than you do.

[JRuss]

Thanks, AndrewP. I have one best (male) friend, my Dad and my sister who are my support group. Both Dad and sis can start in with the fire-setting, though, especially if I'm particularly down in that moment. I tend just to see it as them being concerned with no outlet for the anger they're feeling, and they always get it back under control before too long.

[ForGump]

I think what CT1118 probably meant was that we should not reach out to family & friends for direct help w/ our situation. I too have gotten some emotional support from close friends, and I appreciate what they gave me. Their support constitutes mainly of just listening to me and physically being there for me, meeting up with me and occasionally shed a tear. But in terms of how to chart these dark waters ... they cannot really help me because although they feel a lot of sympathy for me, they don't have any experience or wisdom about D and DB.

I have been tempted and curious what influence my W's family and friends could have on her. Early on I had some expectation that they'd impart some wisdom -- and, to be sure, a few, very few, have expressed some healthy ideas to my W -- but the vast majority are echo chambers and limp noodles, and one or two are fire-setters.

I think CT1118 and we are all in agreement that the focus should be ourselves. But I also reject the prevailing culture in our part of the world that a M is just a piece of paper or it's just between two people. I think, for better or for worse, like it or not, M is a social/cultural/economic/legal/(and for some, religious) phenomenon, and it's overly simplistic to say, "Oh well, it's between the two of you, you guys do what you want." But I digress...

A friend who doesn't know W ... hauled me back from the brink more than once before I made a stupid mistake.

Would you care to list some of those stupid mistakes you avoided?

Thanks.

[AndrewP]

I have been tempted and curious what influence my W's family and friends could have on her. Early on I had some expectation that they'd impart some wisdom

Would you care to list some of those stupid mistakes you avoided?

Well the mistakes made outnumber the mistakes avoided not enough space and time for that. One "huge" mistake I perhaps made was thinking that WW's brother whose marriage had survived his affair might "talk sense into her". She had wanted to talk to him and I "facilitated" them getting together. He told her to have fun and do whatever she wanted and that affairs and divorce were perfectly normal and that I had no say in what she did in her life. He's also the person that helped W gut the house of antiques and heirlooms. I had forgotten that the only reason he went back to his W was when he found out that she had money saved away that he didn't know of. From what I can tell he jumps when she cracks the whip these days.

Mistakes my friend helped me avoid - mostly mistakes he made himeself ...
- Keep my temper no matter the provocation.
- Jumping to rash ultimatums. The first draft of a letter that I composed to W asking for her to reconcile (I know backwards) had a specific deadline of 48 hours for her to decide to stay or GTFO.
- Don't make rash decisions especially around finances or marital property. From personal experience he told me how much pain that cost him in court.
- Don't go looking for a replacement for W - just complicates things
- Think about each and every communication and how it would look in court and possible ways that it could be misconstrued. This includes texts, emails and even posting on forums like this. Bored law clerks live for juicy divorce cases. I'm sure this site gets searched regularly.

The key thing that he has said to me though is that he feels that I am the "better man" because I have remained true and loyal and have always treated W with respect and courtesy even when she didn't deserve it.

Hope that helps.