Keep Wearing Wedding Band?

[albac]

its hard to understand why such a simple call makes her get angry Gump.

As we all know now the things these W's do are anything but predictable and as fairly level headed people it's hard for us to understand why. Whenever I start to think about what is going on my W's head I just say to myself she is confused and in her head something is making her unhappy and just move on.

I believe in your case it's like Jruss said, she is probably angry that you only called to arrange times and not to chase, beg or plead for her back. Even just putting the thought into her her that you will be ok without her could be making her anxious as she is still unsure what she wants and can feel you slipping away.

I know mind reading is no good which is why I try to forget about things like this as soon as they are done. Stay strong Gump

[AndrewP]

Gump - thanks for the visit to my thread. I had been keeping a bit of an eye on yours too.

I've been very fortunate in that my WW never vented or got angry with me even during the worst times. But what I did see a lot, and is perhaps coming out in your W's calls and reactions is disgust and hatred. Those are tough, hurtful words but it is part of the world that a WW lives in. For us though there were no kids at home and very little to coordinate between us so there were very few reasons for me to contact her. Much of our communication was done via texting - sometimes even when we were on the same floor of the house. We both were flawlessly polite to each other through it all using all our manners that we had taught the kids.

I remember when I told my adult kids that there were serious marital problems and that I was worried that W would leave that I described it like there was an alien living inside W's skin. Thinking of it that way helped me deal with the hatred and disgust that I saw in her eyes. Perhaps that will help the next time she snaps at you.

If you can as well you may want to figure out a way so that you don't need to make these calls or reach out to her. She may feel that you are pursuing her. You and I both know that you are trying to be a good husband and father but that's not who she wants to see you as with her alien eyes.

[ForGump]

... weirdly wanting a fight to break out to validate their (very negative) view of you.

Thanks for this insight. I needed it. Yep, I think her instinct is to always position me as the source of all her problems. It's the contempt that sandi2 talks about.

[ForGump]

I think her instinct is to always position me as the source of all her problems.

I wish this forum let you edit your own posts, at least during the first 15 minutes after you post.

I don't think my statement is entirely fair. My W is just a high-anxiety, easily flustered type of person. So if whatever she's doing is interrupted, she can easily get flustered, no matter how legitimate the interruption is.

She has enough impulse control so that if the source of the frustration is someone she wants to impress, she can control herself. But with me, she doesn't exercise any self control.

But that still relates directly to our R problem. If you have low impulse control and you're easily flustered and frustrated, it's hard to carry on a long-term close & loving relationship with another human being.

[ForGump]

I described it like there was an alien living inside W's skin.

If you can as well you may want to figure out a way so that you don't need to make these calls.

Good advice. I need to work on that.

The Alien ... yes, the flip is really weird. When she was trying to make W work, she was one person, and then as soon as she gave up and decided on a D ... a whole 'nother person. I was totally perplexed how a person can flip so quickly. But I think I understand. Once you make a decision (to divorce), you can stop making an effort to be a good spouse; and in fact you start making an effort to justify your decision to D, and, besides, it's probably a huge relief and feels good to finally let loose all the negative feelings you've had for someone all these years.

[albac]

Agreed Gump, I think the flip comes so fast because like anything once you finally make a decision and you convince yourself it's what you want the rest is just background noise as you try to focus on the goal.

The problem with our W's is they are so focused on the goal and blinded to the fact the things that lead to them chasing that goal could be wrong but the decision is already made. It will take a lot of time and true loss to snap them back into a state of questioning the decision. And like so many people tell me, if she is getting everything she wants from me why would she ever change her mind.

[CT1118]

... yes, the flip is really weird. When she was trying to make W work, she was one person, and then as soon as she gave up and decided on a D ... a whole 'nother person. I was totally perplexed how a person can flip so quickly. But I think I understand. Once you make a decision (to divorce), you can stop making an effort to be a good spouse; and in fact you start making an effort to justify your decision to D, and, besides, it's probably a huge relief and feels good to finally let loose all the negative feelings you've had for someone all these years.

ForGump So, "the flip". I think there is some good news in this idea. The good news is, you get to have a flip too, and I have not read where you have yet, am I wrong? Flashback about three weeks before I did 2nd BD. Right when I arrived here actually the idea was in my head - its in my first or second post. The same day, I described to myself to my IC as "I can feel something approaching for me and I believe it will be soon. I feel like my hand is trembling over a light switch, but once my hand stops trembling it is going to move down and flip that switch. When I do flip that switch she will be the one in the dark." So I did really see that coming and I did describe it that way, and my hand did flip that switch. You keep up w/ my posts, so you know I am still confused and sure I still have to GAL hard and feel some anger. You also know that I still love the WW, but I think you also see things moved to a different place, albeit still a confusing place. However, I am more laid back about everything and feeling more like myself - myself upgraded self that is. You get a flip man, you get to have one too. No one can force it upon you though, it's somewhere in there. Not claiming I am feeling great, but I do feel different more often then I used to.

Now two things Newbies should pay attention to if you follow FG's story...

1.

The problem with our W's is they are so focused on the goal and blinded to the fact the things that lead to them chasing that goal could be wrong but the decision is already made. It will take a lot of time and true loss to snap them back into a state of questioning the decision. And like so many people tell me, if she is getting everything she wants from me why would she ever change her mind.

albac nails his comments. The above is true. The above is very true. Read it, re-read it.

2.

Thanks for this insight. I needed it. Yep, I think her instinct is to always position me as the source of all her problems. It's the contempt that sandi2 talks about.

Read Sandi's posts - especially from the HW and probably beyond the HW. I got a 2x4(s) when I first got here for babbling away and not having read my HW. It helped me so much that I feel compelled to help spread the word when the opportunity presents.

[Surfer]

Great comment JRuss. I get this behaviour all the time also ForGump. I have realised there are certain points in the week and day where conversations don't work. MWD comments on this - I think when talking about WHEN to 'push [the right] buttons (ie not the wrong ones)'. She talks about not talking to her H at certain times as she knows he will not be approachable. Is it possible that there is a pattern with your W?

For example when my W was living at home, ithe wrong time was early in the morning and late at night. I think that was/is when she is most stressed. As she is no longer at home I avoid those points in the day by default. I need to be careful when she drops the kids so I can take them to school now. At first she starting using this point in the day to spew, which would begin with any small point she could raise. Like she is looking for something to validate/justify her acting out her emotions on me. I read up on the Drama Triangle (see Theramin Trees website) which was useful in dealing with this.

When living at home I would not recognise her playing the Victim (to engage me) so I would Rescue and then she would turn Persecutor making me the Victim - she would then persecute until she had sufficient payoff - which was hard venting shouting and raging. Terrible times. Very frightening for me and the kids. I had to learn to recognise this behaviour and exit the 'game', before it started - it's kind of like a Game People Play (a good book on this is by Eric Berne). If you have not read this sort of stuff it's worth understanding - it's useful for all relationship work, friends etc. Remember if you engage in the game and don't exit quickly you are simply handing her a stick to beat you with. She will continue doing this until you stop the game - through boundaries. Remember though she is not doing this because she is bad or mad as such, she is doing it because she is sad, hurt and confused. This helps to not vilify her - which is important but very hard. We are all human and have feelings. But we are in control of them and can work on that.

My kids are away for 10 days on holiday with W now. But just prior to going I called to say I couldn't find S's sunglasses. I called her at work to let her know. They were just lost, no big deal, nobody will die but the spew was totally out of proportion. Looking back, I told her at the wrong time. She was very stressed at work and she was trying to keep it together whilst trying to get organised for holiday, missing the kids (they were with me for 9 days) etc - she tends to crack under these kind of pressures. So I now know not to phone her at work or when she might be under pressure and ready/likely to crack.

I think for me, timing is very important when you make contact. Best keeping it to the minimum. It gives space. Not for a bad reason - for good. It allows space so you are not always in their face reminding them of their negative image of you - which is largely constructed in most cases - hence don't believe what they say. You will have faults of course, we all do, as do our S's, so I am just trying to work on mine, be the best person I can be and give space so she can see that.

JRuss is most likely right. It is perhaps a persuit thing. And yes they will say they don't want that and they will spin/twist everything and even gaslight you to say you are doing that not them (I have read a little about projection to try and understand this, don't know if that might help you?). However, often only confuses to think through what they are saying too much IMHO. So I try not to. Mind reading has never been anyone's strong point. The reasons why etc are perhaps best left alone sometimes, as are constructed persuit or distancing patterns.

This is just my view, and I am no expert, I am simply trying to find a way through like you. So I am going to continue without persuit, strategy etc and just focus on the gift of time I have been given to be the best version of me I can be, work on my faults, focus in work, enjoy life as fully as I can and have a great time with the kids when I have them. If she gets through her journey and sees me all well and good, if not that's okay too.

I hope it helps if only to see that someone else is going through similar circumstances and is still trying. Hang in there and keep up the good work!

Take care.

[AndrewP]

For me the "flip" was a massive source of confusion and was for months. On BD my WAW in the matter of moments changed before my eyes into a weird alien WW that I didn't recognize after I asked her about OM and she confirmed the A. I kept waiting for it to flip back off and while over the course of months she did at times become more her old self the alien was always lurking behind her eyes ready to leap out.

More than anything I think that hurt and confused me because to me it appeared so sudden and I kept expecting a flip back the other way. The alien must have been there all along though and was just freed by BD.

I almost wish that there was an "idiot's guide to WW" that would outline the steps that a WW goes through along with the steps that the LBH has (grief, denial etc) complete with a couple of 2X4s for him to whack himself with every time that he thinks "no - this is different". Ideally the last chapter would end with "and they lived happily ever after".

[CT1118]

I almost wish that there was an "idiot's guide to WW" that would outline the steps that a WW goes through along with the steps that the LBH has (grief, denial etc) complete with a couple of 2X4s for him to whack himself with every time that he thinks "no - this is different". Ideally the last chapter would end with "and they lived happily ever after".

Ha! Can't do that though - then WW's would improve defenses. I got some notes that may be helpful on this. I will post them on my thread tonight - but only after work and my evening GAL's are finished.