Newby here, desperate for some advice (thread 2)

[ForGump]

All of the data say even an unhappy but quiet/calm marriage is better for kids than a "happy" divorce...

(Sorry for the barrage -- too many parallels between your situation and mine).

Could you point out where I can find the data? Thanks.

Also, have your kids picked up on any of what's going on between you and your W?

[MoveFrwd]

All of the data say even an unhappy but quiet/calm marriage is better for kids than a "happy" divorce...

(Sorry for the barrage -- too many parallels between your situation and mine).

Could you point out where I can find the data? Thanks.

Also, have your kids picked up on any of what's going on between you and your W?

Chapter 1 of DR?

JRuss - why are you listening to anything she's saying? These are all feelings. As you said, her feelings may change in a year. I don't think you should make any moves at all based on these words. Just keep focusing on your own goals.

[ForGump]

Just to play devil's advocate ... What about all the "data" here, that says in-house separation rarely leads to reconciliation? Maybe you (we) have to destroy the marriage in order to save it. Maybe a 1-2 year in-house S is pointless?

[MoveFrwd]

You didn't say anything about a separation. Only about a middling marriage vs a "happy" divorce.

I believe the marriage ends on BD. So I'm not sure what an in house separation vs a divorce comparison is worth.

[EDF]

I was doing everything with an eye on W to see if any of it was working...

This is the paradox I wrestle with constantly.... how can you honestly let something go knowing that your motivation for letting go is to keep it?

There were a few things that helped me a lot mentally.

• Picking GAL activities that were really about me and focusing on why I wanted to do those things for myself.
• Setting and working towards personal goals/milestones, and not telling WW about them.
• Like darknes points out, the original marriage is dead. Whenever I find myself worrying I might lose the W or the W is slipping away, I remind myself she is already gone. the more I came to understand that, the better I was able to really see the WW that replaced my wife, and strike a better balance of being detached emotionally from her rollercoaster, while being upbeat & positive in myself, without being clingy to her.

[JRuss]

My W said essentially the same thing. I strongly question this concept though. How *are* long term couples supposed to love each other? Are you supposed to feel the giddy infatuation after years of negotiating parenting, house chores, finances, etc.? No, I think a healthy partner feels a deeper sense of attraction based on a loving, trusting relationship. So I think your W might be misguided in looking for excitement in your relationship. She is obviously attracted to you enough to have meaningless sex once a week. She needs to build on that, rather than look elsewhere for exciting romance.

I really, really agree with this. I told her once, early on, after first learning that she didn't feel attracted to me, that I myself had any number of things she's done, said, acted like, even smelled like over the years, etc. that, if I fixated on them, and didn't instead focus on what I love about her, I'd be so out of love it wouldn't be funny. But I didn't, because I thought that's what we promised each other we wouldn't do.

I've been told a bunch of things I did that contributed to this, but I agree with you that the biggest reason we're here is that she quit doing what it takes to be together longterm, parent under the same roof, be economic partners AND loving spouses. I had failings, but I never dropped any of those things.

[JRuss]

Just to play devil's advocate ... What about all the "data" here, that says in-house separation rarely leads to reconciliation? Maybe you (we) have to destroy the marriage in order to save it. Maybe a 1-2 year in-house S is pointless?

It's all about the children. I often think I'd have a much better chance of reconciling with her if she moved out (no way am I going to), and I know I'd feel better, right now, if I didn't see her all the time, which leads to false hope and no detachment. But I believe pretty strongly that the more time the kids have with us before it has to happen that the better they'll be able to withstand the dynamics that screw so many kids up.

[AndrewP]

Yep, some so-called-friends are toxic. They're not interested in your W's welfare as much as validating their own sh!tty choices in life. For every person who has voiced something about our situation, I question what their motivation is, where they are coming from, what feeling they hope to get out of the conversation.

Boy - this seems to be a common theme here. I know from my own sitch that my WW was actively encouraged by "friends" who were able to do it from the safety of their own secure marriages. It's the whole "you could do so much better", "they don't deserve you" conversation which people have tried to have with me too. On the other hand to your point ForGump, some people will light a fire just to watch it burn.

Separating our spouses (and ourselves) from this noise is probably impossible especially for those of us here which is it's own brand of reinforcing noise. My WW told me when she walked out that she was needing to do that to have space and quiet to make up her own mind.

[JRuss]

Thanks, EDF -- that's a great list.

GALing is definitely, far and away, the best thing I have going right now (other than the kids). I look better, feel better and, while I'm doing it, I don't stress and worry and get anxious like I do most all of every other part of my day.

I do struggle very much accepting that the marriage is "dead". I have not detached well at all yet. It seems impossible living in the same house, sleeping in the same bed, sharing a bathroom. If I can get to the place where I really accept that the marriage is dead, I feel like I'd be much further along my grief/healing continuum.

[JRuss]

p.s. I would dare guess -- as with my W -- that all kinds of other dissatisfaction/unhappiness in her life stokes her need to find excitement in her love life. She has a big hole in her heart from all the unhappiness, and if you guys divorce, she might that hole temporarily fogged up by new romance and sex, but the hole will still be there and she'll return to feeling the way she did. This might take years, and sadly she'll leave a broken family in her wake.

\

This is my suspicion as well, but you can't tell it to her, at least not in a way that doesn't drive her further away. And her so-called friends won't tell her, either, so we're all apparently going to go along for the ride as she figures it out on her own.