Shelob's Lair

[Zues126]

Hi V! Yes, my parents are awesome and I am truly fortunate.

Juju, you've asked a question that has two parts. What keeps me here, and what keeps me away from those other communities (Voice for Men/MGTOW for those just joining).

What keeps me here I don't want to spend much time on. The fact is that even putting words on it really doesn't express the depth of meaning each of you and this community has for me. I am sure at some level there is selfishness, meeting emotional needs for validation or companionship and support through life. But it's way, way beyond that. When I was a kid I went to a church camp every summer, and between the spiritual orientation and the camaraderie with my peers we developed a connection unlike anything I had known. This forum is more like that. You are some of the smartest and sweetest people I've ever known, and we've gotten through a lot together. It will be interesting to see how those connections hold up to the passage of time, and our lives diverge from the common ground of BD that brought us here. But whether I post a lot or a little, I expect to be around and hope you all are for a while as well.

Those other groups were intriguing. They each had their own 'mission statement'. The men's rights group seemed to be based on the belief that in our battle for women's rights, we had taken our eye off the ball of men's rights, and that in some critical areas such as divorce laws men were suffering from inequality. This message came to me at a time when I was going through a surreal experience of appalling injustice due to a woman that walked on her marriage, so it definitely struck a chord with me. The MGTOW "men going their own way" mission statement seems to be that marriage in this day and age is a terrible decision for men due to the entitled mindset of most modern day women and the inequality of divorce law which was the inevitable fate of those who tried. That men play the M game with hopes that they can find love and that it can be different for them. But that the reality is that it doesn't work the way men dream it would, and that it will cost them their freedom in the end as they are legally enslaved and forced to support those that used and abandoned them. Again, knowing the statistics about women leaving marriages, the quick cries to "I am being abused" and "I deserve better" and "I am entitled to his support", the flood of examples of WW's on these boards, and the aftermath to the LBHs after the legal system had chewed them up, I definitely understand why some men could reach that conclusion.

While all of this resonates with me, the majority on those groups simply don't do anything positive. Blaming, victim mentality, like it is all women's fault and men are victims. Lack of accountability, like men aren't also swept up in the culture of selfishness and entitlement, leading many to walk on their own marriages, have affairs, and feel indignant that they should have to sacrifice to make a relationship work. Disrespect, name calling, hostility, and anger are widespread. Division instead of unity. Spewing and negativity instead of constructive discussion. I get that these men have been wounded, and I understand the reaction, but the fact that they choose to speak out of anger, react to their emotions, and in doing so fail to act with character, well, to me this is extremely hypocritical and destructive, and not a group I'd like to go on a canoe trip with.

I don't have answers. I think there is merit to some of their observations. But women aren't to blame, and men aren't victims. We are in a culture in which personal freedom is exalted, traditional values are seen as obsolete and inconvenient, and we feel entitled to being able to do whatever we feel like, and if anyone doesn't agree we can just 'etcha-sketch' start over with new friends and a new life that gives us the approval we want. This is not a gender issue, we just all feel the impact in different ways. And I am not excluded from it. My own disgust at this culture is hypocritical, because it just showcases my own entitlement that I believe things ought to work exactly the way I wished they did so I can have the relationship, love, and life that I want.

So I am just confused. I am still deeply wounded and understand that like someone protects a sensitive spot, I am protecting myself so I don't get hurt further. And that my need to protect myself is far overpowering my desire to share with others. And I am wrestling with my own entitlements, my own humanity. I don't have any hard conclusions, I just know that reacting to pain with anger and blaming isn't the path I want to follow. I need to work through my emotions, the destructive behavior that I contribute, and consider what I want my footprint to look like when it is all said and done. Perhaps an alligator footprint...