Newby here, desperate for some advice

[JRuss]

Thanks, lfm. I know there's no magic bullet, but it is really nice to hear from someone else out there who's dealing with similar circumstances. I know I should be doing what you outline, but I really suck at it. I really struggle not to be hopeful and results-oriented, but this is our family's life we're talking about. I'm not sure how I ever get past the fear, worry and terrible hoping things will change.

Is anger the way? Sometimes I feel tremendous anger welling up inside me toward her. I get so angry that someone to whom I've given almost half of my life, with whom I've built a life and family with two great kids who deserve a lot better, would, without ever trying MC or even just devoting some meaningful time and energy to working on our marriage, blow it all up, put me and our children through a divorce . . . In those moments, I WANT to detach and do it easily. But I can't see how being so mad is helpful if the overarching hope is keeping the marriage together.

Anyway, thanks again for the post and support. I hope things go well with you and your family.

[doodler]

I'm really struggling with detachment. I don't feel like I'm making any progress in that area. My heart still just feels ripped out and thrown in the trash. Does anyone have any advice at all as to how to do this, when you're still living in the same house, still sleeping next to each other, and you're both trying to keep the kids from figuring it out yet? It seems impossible that this will ever be anything other than the worst thing ever.

JRuss,

I didn't really detach until my wife moved out. After she moved out, I didn't actively try to detach, it was just that she was removed from the equation and I was able to gain a new perspective. Unfortunately (sort-of), the new perspective was, "I'm no longer subject to the tyranny of the WW!!!" Life was good again and I was getting things done around the house. It was a relief. The huge downside was that my sons split their time between the two of us; they hate it and I hate it.

My experience is certainly not universal. I've read many posts on this forum where the LBS is still pining for the WS. That may be a more normal and natural response; I don't know. I loved and adored my wife, but I'd become a doormat and that clearly didn't suit me.

My two cents: I don't think detachment is something that occurs overtly, I think it's implicit in the process of moving on with your life. In other words, I think actively trying to detach actually causes you to remain attached.

[JRuss]

I feel sort of bad whining. It's not all bad. GAL is going great.

I just got word that my application to audit classes at my local college was approved, and I'm going to sign up for something I wished I took when I was back in college but didn't. Old School, baby. I may streak the Quad.

I'm going to be volunteering this fall with Habitat for Humanity and a hospital.

I've lost 26 pounds and work out pretty religiously. Pushups are my new passion. I do them in sets of 30 and usually can find time to do at least 150/day. I weigh less than the day I got married and am considerably stronger. Well, at least physically. Emotionally, well, still a basket case inside.

I meditate every day. I looked at this app I have on my phone that is a timer and has lots of guided meditations on it, and it says I've meditated every day for the last 436 days. I was pretty stunned, but also proud.

I am pretty constantly thinking of fun or worthwhile things to do with the kids. I just booked us a cabin a few hours away, and we're going to go whitewater rafting. W actually said she'd like to come, but then had to quickly make it clear that she'd stay back at the cabin while we are rafting.

I'm keeping a file on my desk at work. I gave it a name: "Fun/Ideas/Dreams". I have subfolders in it for things like "Audit Classes", "Hikes", "Trips", "Things I Want To Do With The Kids", "Meditation", "Bucket List", etc. and, when I run into something that looks good that I'd like to do or try, I put it in there. Each subfolder has a checklist in it. I'm a lawyer, so it just blends in to the unaware visitor, but I know it's there, and that keeps me motivated.

So I think that's all going well. It's the detaching (or lack thereof) that keeps me from realizing the true GAL benefits, though-- I still routinely spend too much energy wondering if any of it is being noticed, and I know that's a recipe for continued suffering.

[JRuss]

Thanks, doodler. I am pretty sure I'd have an easier path to personally feeling better were my W to move out. But I just want to vomit every time I think of losing half of my kids' childhoods, them having to move back and forth all the time, and so I keep riding the status quo.

Also, that's a really great thought regarding detachment. Maybe just accepting that detachment is a byproduct of the changes I'm making that will show up when/if it's time would be a healthier way of looking at things than with the idea that I need to focus on detaching and affirmatively striving to make it happen.

You are a good person who helps a lot of people here.

[JRuss]

Another request for advice. My wife pretty often fails to make eye contact with me when she talks to me. It pisses me off, and I feel disrespected. I can't imagine she does this in her professional life. I'm realizing more and more that I have definite doormat tendencies. Is there a DB-approved way of telling her I don't like it when she doesn't look at me when she speaks to me, that i find it rude, etc.?

[lfm]

JRuss, my WW did the same thing for a couple of months after I discovered the A. She even commented that she couldn't look me in the eye anymore that there was so much damage between us. Fortunately, that has changed and she does no look me in the eye when she's speaking to me, and I do the same in return.

Give it some time, and it may come back, but it doesn't make it any easier in the interim.

[JRuss]

So you think say nothing? I'm itching to firmly but not too aggressively start standing up for myself a little more. For months I've been trying not to dig a bigger hole and have been walking on eggshells. It is starting to run head onto into my other efforts at improving myself and feeling better about who I am.

[AndrewP]

JRuss - the lack of eye contact is something I know well myself. I hate to say it, but yes, it is disrespect and perhaps some hate and loathing.

Can you do anything about it? I don't know. Making a fuss about it will seem controlling and treating your W like a 5 year-old to her - perhaps that's how she's acting but she won't like being treated that way.

I treat it as a temperature gauge of how my W is feeling towards me at that moment. When I get eye contact and interaction I know that I can talk to her. When I don't then I know that she's not wanting me in her world right then and move on.

[EDF]

For me, a big obstacle to detaching was/is fear of the unknown, and fear of the consequences of separation/divorce.

In my case, actively seeking out info about how a divorce would work from an impartial lawyer, and sketching out what I would do if things headed in that direction... those helped me fear the unknown less.

I also gave some serious thought to what my life would look like without WW in it, and what were the positives that could come from that scenario. Things like getting away from the toxicity, not worrying about whether me using the "wrong" hangers for clothes would cause a blowup, spending more time with friends, eventually finding a new relationship with someone who appreciated the good things about me rather than just harping on the bad.

As I mentally took those concepts for a test drive, I started to believe a bit more about my current situation what we ultimately relearn with every crisis we encounter in life - that we'll be ok. We can even thrive if we approach it with the right mindset.

For me, I had been unhappy for years, but now I'm working through a lot of the habits I had that just weren't working for me and have grown a lot. I'm ready for a much better relationship that what I had with my WW. I'm still hopeful that that new relationship can be with her, but if it's not I'll still be ok.

Kids are a variable I don't have to worry about, and I can only imagine how frustrating it is, but if the scale of your personal catharsis and transformation has been anything like mine, perhaps you can look at it as the kids will be better off with the new you - even if it's only half the time - then they were with the old you? I don't mean that in a disparaging way, I just know that for me personally the "old me" wasn't of much benefit to anyone because of my funk.

[JRuss]

Thanks Andrew and EDF. I appreciate the feedback.

I'm going to not say anything, but I am going to consider calmly breaking off any conversation where she's pulling the "I'm Not Looking At You While We Talk" routine.

EDF -- Re fear of the unknown, good lord, it's HUGE. I have this near constant fear of what it will be like when/if we divorce. I'm a lawyer so I actually have a pretty good handle on what happens mechanically in the legal system and with respect to our assets; most of the anxiety surrounds the kids and the impact on them, but, if I'm truthful, I'm also very afraid of the solitude and loneliness and the reality that I'll never be with my wife again, at least not the way it was before things went downhill. It was almost half my life ago that we got together. To say that I'm out of practice w/r/t the opposite gender is a huge understatement. And how to ever trust anyone again? Geez, I'm probably putting the cart before the horse there.

Several people have told me that 50% time (my wife has said a couple of times that that's what she wants, and not more) where it's all pretty much awesome might be better than 100% time where I'm miserable. I guess that might be so. I certainly hope so. But then I think about how much I just love watching and experiencing the little stuff, how much I love being there if they need me but not in their face as they grow and develop, how the kids just live moment by moment, and so much of that will be lost. It's just math -- half means only half. And that's IF my wife doesn't change her mind at any point and fight me on that.

I also really worry that either or both of my children will deal poorly with the divorce and not thrive. They are both doing so well right now. I guess if it happens, I can at least tell myself I worked really hard for it not to happen; my wife, she can tell herself she couldn't even bring herself to try MC.

We are all going to the beach tomorrow for a week on a trip that was booked and paid for months ago, so I likely won't be posting much, if at all for awhile. I'm just going to try and go with the flow and try to relax some. It feels like a million years since I really relaxed. Anyway, I really do appreciate everyone here who goes out of their way to support people in our shoes.