Being there to help v going dark:balance

[Surfer]

Sandi. Thank you again. Crystal clarity as per.

In terms of mood. I see this mood change. She usually is most upbeat when heading out with her girlfriends - the ones who have helped her hide her EA and who slander me terribly (in fairness they are only joining in my wife's husband bashing game - only my wife can and should stop this game). My W was also on a high when she met her EA partner - I called her when I presumed she was up to something.

Now reality is in play and she is alone things seem to be up and down for her. When vexed she wants to lash out but I am limiting communication to text or email. When getting her own way - going out with girlfriends etc she is on a high.

Her girlfriends (a certain group that she favours - the wayward ones, the rest are fine) validate my W's wayward behaviour and her generally. This is her payoff. I wondered if they, at present, are like her EA? I certainly seem them as a bad influence and whilst she needs friends these are not good for our relationship. I would prefer not to be in a relationship with my W whilst she continues to have regular contact, holidays etc with the wayward group. With summer coming up she will be using the savings she withdrew to fund time together with friends and kids and I can't do much about that as she has the money in her bank.

What is this enjoyment at lashing out and getting her way? Disrespect and selfishness? This seems common amongst WW's.

[sandi2]

Have you read my thread on help for the newcomer LBH who has a WW? You may find some of your questions answered in those threads.

Think about a rebellious teenager. Why do they rebell? What are they directing their rebellion? At times, a WW acts very much like a teenager. Some WW's have a lot of anger, and it can be seen in her attitude, speech, defiance, doing things that would shock her old self's standards for a M woman and a mother.

I wished I had commented more about the anger in my WW threads. I believe that resentment is suppressed anger, and in some cases, it has continued to grow overmany years. Perhaps the WW feels she had no control or no say about things that happened in her M (or back farther). She is angry about it all and her acting out is a way of her giving whoever the middle finger. Usually, the H is the one she blames for her unhappiness. It's all his fault for not meeting her expectations and emotional needs.

For me, it started with an over-bearing MIL. My H would not stand up to her, and she tried to rule our lives till the day she died. It would take a book to tell it all, but seeing the passivity in my H definitely started killing the attraction. Oh, and she took priority over me. His mother was just one thing. Over time, other things would happen and he would not step up and take charge. I felt like the bad guy raising our kids, while he came through smelling like a rose. It was years and years of life and seeing expectations crushed. At times, things would get a little better. M had certainly not brought me happiness, as I thought it would, so when the kids wetre grown, I decided I would try to keep myself busy and focus on the things I enjoyed. Then health problems got me down where I couldn't do my hobbies, etc. I don't want to get off into all of that, but my point is the resentment continued to build.

Can you see how the seeds of resentment and disrespect can grow over years, and the H, apparently, doesn't know she's carrying around this stuff and it's killing the MR. She tries to tell him, but he doesn't really "hear" her...........until she tells him she's done, or he discovers a third party.

[Surfer]

Wow. I really want to talk to her about this and stop the train but I guess that will just cause problems? To say "I have read and worked so much on what you are and have been going through [a 2 year Marriage Course, which definitely helped me to deal with her anger if nothing else, now D'Bing lots of books etc] and I know I have made you feel unheard for such a long time. I just want to tell you that whilst I know you have reached a point of no return, I really did want to hear you and I am so sorry I made you feel unheard". However, if I do this I will just get both barrels I am sure. Also - she is so different (angry as you say) right now perhaps best I leave this, GAL, stay dark etc??

[Surfer]

Ah - think I have taken a step back....not sure. W just called. I have been trying to stick to texts. The call was about confirming when I would have the kids this week. Not a big deal we are working towards something more rigid but we need to talk this through - we struggle to communicate at the moment without it becoming blame and arguments.

She told me she was having a bad day, I validated, she then asked if I was okay (she very, very rarely does this) - I told her I was having to deal with something at work which (basically about to leave and set up a new company whilst very busy). We talked and said "why are you not talking to me", you shutting me out is not working. I said we were not communicating well when we talk so I have to avoid that (she is still very full of criticism and blame). I said I know she is struggling but we can't make it worse by having unproductive arguments.She started to say it didn't help when you did A, B, C etc, basically exiting arguments in front of the children (she was not criticizing, more explaining). I heard this and said I was sorry to come across that way but I think there needs to be more respect in our discussions and I can't have the children see any more arguments. I guess I was trying to explain why my boundaries exist (silence for poor communication).

I said I do know how you feel and I am sorry I have left you feeling unheard and if there are things she needs to talk to me about she can but there needs to be respect from us both. She said she does not have a lack of respect for me. I said well on that basis call if you need to talk, but it needs to be productive.

We said other things - when she started to escalate (very slightly) I explained that if this was to become unproductive there is no point. She respected that and calmed down.

I don't know if I have done the right thing? We are about to start the mediation process and I miss her lots today (funny how you have massive ups and downs day by day - today a bit down).

I felt for her (perhaps a bit needy inside) during our conversation. I said I am here for her if she wants a respectful conversation, I also said I do think about them constantly. I think I acted well by working on boundaries so didn't come across that too needy and did really listen. But I am worried this approach might not be the best. It felt right to say what I said but, I don't want to reeled back in by 'the alien'. Perhaps I just need to give less of a sh!t. At the end of the day all I said was "You can call me if you want to and I will listen (but we need conversations with respect)".

Don't know.....hard to tell if you are doing the right thing at times.

[AndrewP]

Well, I was actually talking about more of a mood. The A/OM becomes her addiction. Many times, the H will see his WW acting as if she is in a happy mood.......having a good day, etc. He thinks to himself that maybe this is a sign that things are getting better in the MR.......b/c she's in a better mood. In reality, she has had a fix for her addiction (some type of contact with the OM) and it is that fix that has her in a chipper mood. If she has had no contact with her affair partner in a little while, then her craving starts kicking and she may seem very down.

Man - I wish I knew this months ago when I would treat every bit of sunshine as a imminent reconciliation. Now I look at them as a precursor to disaster.

The children are her leverage and she knows she gets away with more, if it's in their presence. She treats you this way b/c she gets away with it.

My WW would wait for a time and place where I was vulnerable and/or unable to react strongly and whack me with bad news. Oh the stories ....

[Surfer]

AndrewP,

Totally get the 'Ray of sunshine' point. I did this earlier, thinking 'ah she wants to talk to me about her feelings...."piecing" - it must be'.....clearly no it's not.

In terms of the 'Vulnerable'. At times she would suggest I go for a drink...as I had got so resilient to the 'attacks' (I just didn't engage), then with a few beers on board, not too many but a few, she would launch. My guard was down.....oh dear (I have to smile at this - what a fool, I fell for it every time).

[sandi2]

I would just wait. She's probably in that stage where she would just scream in your face, "SEE THERE! I TRIED TO TELL YOU! I KNEW YOU WEREN'T LISTENING......YOU SO & SO! .........Yeah, I think I'd wait on that one.

Here's the thing, and it's kind of sad. Even if you got down on your knees to apologize, I don't know if she can get over it. At least, not right now, b/c of the wall of anger. That is an inner work for her. I hope she can come to terms with it, b/c bitterness leaves a mark on the person, almost as if they've been branded.

When a person learns something new, they are often eager to apply it or share it with their spouse. However, when you have a wayward spouse, your road and their road is not running parallel, at the moment. Your timing and their timing is not the same. That's not to say the day will never come that you will be able to talk about it. Hopefully, you will know when the time is just right.

[Surfer]

Thanks Sandi. Your words are so reassuring it's untrue. You are so clear. It really helps to have you and the others sharing your views.

I feel like I have 2 roads at the moment. 'Split' or 'repair' - being happy with both is difficult at the same time. There is a tendency to overthink too. So it's important to put the breaks on that.

[Surfer]

So took kids out for dinner. W popped over. We had a very normal conversation. It was nice. Hardly any tension. Both kind and civil and I felt really quite detached. Quite happy but expecting nothing.

[Surfer]

Can anyone please point me towards a LHB thread or many that show the history of how DBing worked for them when they had a WW?? Looking for a little hope.....:)