Seattle, While I know you had a bit of a setback with your DBing I dont think this was that big of a deal. I truely believe at times we have to show our true feelings and let them know what they are doing. It gives them something to think about that they can change and see why you are the way you are. If we hold in our feelings to much we are not expressing what we need and it will start to hinder our Dbing even more. You said what you had to say (to which I dont blame you) now forget it and move on. Dont make it a cheeseless tunnel. I think you were right to say it. She has to realize your feelings are hurt. Next time you see her dont bring it up, be pleasant and forgive her. Its the alien in her.
I also found out this weekend my FIL had to babysit my kids on Saturday. I am supposed to have first right to deny before someone else is allowed to watch them. Im not sure what to do. This is the second time. I think I might give her 3 strikes. I know how you feel, believe me.
Your an amazing guy and your right the chics will be swarming on you. Your sensative and warm. Cant blame the nurses. Keep your head up and dont let your W bring you down to much. I know it gets heavy at times but be strong and show her your love. I think you did great with her out to dinner. If your W is at all like mine, she says we have to start all over. Almost like when we were first dating. We need to get that friendship back before she can trust and feel love for me. So take those steps slow and be a gentleman to her like when you were first dating. Might help.??? God BLess, Eddy
I have just read a couple of pages of your thread, and my advice would be, get a dog of your own. I am not downplaying the love and affection you have for the other one, but as it is proving such a bone of contention (hahaha!) it is one way to solve the problem. Much as you love your dog, it isn't as difficult as trying to 'divide' a child equally.
Some positives - you get to focus on your dog, and it takes the pressure off your W, who may even be slightly unerved that you can 'move on' like this. Try to get one that might make a good companion to your other one, should you two humans get back together!
What do you think?
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
I talked to you last weekend and I know how much you adore this dog. In fact, you stated to me that you are the kind of person who treats their pets, and especially this dog, as a family member, maybe even close to a child. I have heard many people say this about their pets.
I for one KNOW the bond you and that dog have. It is the SAME bond that I have with my S4. Unconditional Love that can never be broken. Just because my S4 is human and your dog is not, doesn't mean that we can't and shouldn't love a being like we do.
With this said, I think it is difficult for you to be away from the dog. I have a hard time being away from my S4 and the twins, but it is something that I have to live with because of this sep. I don't want it to be this way, but it has to be this way, RIGHT NOW.
My S4 is IRREPLACEABLE. Just like your dog seems IRREPLACEABLE TO YOU! I can't go out and find another S4 just because my W feels like she wants to keep him away from me, which isn't the case, but I am imagining it. I would be screaming, hopping mad if that happened.
So, IMHO, the answer is NOT to get another dog.
But the question begs to be answered. What can you do so that the dog is not a bone of contention between you and your W.
It is a craw in both your sides that this dog is put in the middle of your sitch. Its unfortunate that kids have to go through the same thing. So, for the sake of others reading who are still unclear, lets imagine this is a child.
and I know people are going to say well, a dog and a child are not the same. but I am not talking about physical appearances here. I am talking about the bond between two beings.
What can you do to make it easier for the dog? Never mind what W is thinking. What is best for the dog that will benefit both of you? Yes, you think the dog would be much happier with you because you have been there for the dog. But she thinks, and this could be just one scenario, that if she leaves you with the dog, she will come back and the dog, this dog who IMO is the only thing that is keeping her from being truly alone, will shun her away and she can not take that right now. Has she ever told you why?
Lord I hope everyone followed that.
This dog CAN NOT be a topic for contention, nor should it be used as a resource just to talk to your W. I know you can't talk to the dog and my heart goes out to you on that.
But cherish the time that you do have with the dog. Do whatever you need to do to help your W understand that this dog is the world to you. And one day, she will kick herself in the rear for not letting you be the person that this dog needs.
in my thoughts bud!
Triple J
Things were different then. All is different now. I tried to explain, somehow..........
Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam)
I tned to agree with others on the dog. It's a pressure point. I really like Livnlearn's idea about getting your own dog if that's feasible--And of course assuming you can keep two dogs when you and W get back together. The dog is about YOU, not her. It seems to be the only interaction you have with her that is not about being her friend and detracts from all the positves you do in this regard.
I also want you to know that you're one of the more sensitive guys on this BB and I really appreciate your comments on my thread on ways to touch my W's softer spots--even if I get hit by an anvil when I touch them!!!
Pretty quiet on the PacWestern Front, W has been out of town. Have been taking the time to think and do a lot of living for myself, saw a couple of Mariner’s games and some other relaxing stuff. Has been really helpful to pull back and “get perspective”. Apologies for not posting more, will try to catch up with you all.
Renew, no worries on being a little hypocritical. It takes a lot of looking in the mirror to figure out where one is and what is good for oneself. I’ve been trying to be true to my mind and heart, and sometimes they don’t always agree. Acting with dignity and respect as well as kindness and gentleness for myself and for others.
Karen, your insights are always very valuable to me. A lot of things I’ve been thinking about there. I can see what you are saying about the pressure and the R talk. Please understand that I get that. I also get that this is a woman that has felt unloved and ignored. Her history says flight instinct is really a cry for help, come after me type thing. Have you ladies ever done that? Looking back, it is clear this is what she wanted before. NOW it is a fine line between that and feeling pressure of R talk. Is it possible to feel both? Making reasons for if he doesn’t come after me he doesn’t love me, and if he does she feels stress and pressure? A lady friend of mine told me even if she is pissed to no end at her H and really doesn’t want him back, she would still feel loved and cherished if he came after her and might even take him back. I know it doesn’t make sense, but I’m just trusting what she said. Anyone agree?
As for the dog, I can see what you guys are saying. I even agree to some extent if it were anyone other than MS. I have been giving into her way on everything, and she abuses the power and makes up more EXCUSES and LIES. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I needed to call it like it REALLY IS. I actually felt we gained some progress there communicating. I got past the surface bs which has been a barrier for this entire time. Monitoring for results now. Maybe it was a good thing?
Eddy, thanks for the support. I really appreciate it. I do believe I needed to regain my respect in her eyes. I did that and will not dwell on it. Was it a cheeseless tunnel? I’m monitoring for reactions. It wasn’t for me, I feel much better and I think this may have been a reality check for her and her actions. I know how you feel about the kids, sorry to hear that. Sounds like your W has thought about what it would take for you two. I’ve heard similar things, but not quite as direct. You’ve been holding out on us Eddy, that sound pretty good to me.
Wonder, good to hear from you. Thanks for the article!
Livnlearn, thanks for stopping by! I need all the insights I can get. I’ll try and visit with you soon. I’m not so sure I’m ready for a new dog. I’ll have to think about it some more.
TripleJ, you understand this with such clarity. We both do think of dog as our child, and we shouldn’t let dog be caught in the middle. I will of course do the best for this dog, show her my unconditional love for the dog, because I do care for both of them. It is the right thing to do. As you know, I have said my peace. I am monitoring for reactions.
Merrick, yes it seems to be a sensitive point between us. I guess I don’t view this as all that bad. I believe it allows her to use something else to convey how she feels. This has been so important and I view this as a HUGE STEP for her to talk about how she feels. Even if it seems rough at first, it might be getting closer to the core.
I’m a little embarrassed I’m considered the sensitive guy now. I’ve really been trying to speak her language and she is sensitive, so if I’ve gotten there I guess it is a good thing. Being sensitive isn’t easy though, I keep laying my heart out there hoping she will pick it up and take care of it.
Ah, you hit on something with me today. Not that it helps you but maybe a little peek into the feminine mystique?
Quote: A lady friend of mine told me even if she is pissed to no end at her H and really doesn’t want him back, she would still feel loved and cherished if he came after her and might even take him back. I know it doesn’t make sense, but I’m just trusting what she said. Anyone agree?
Well, the book I just read (Wild at Heart--a book about secrets to a man's soul) mentioned this very thing. And I found it sort of interesting to see in black and white what I had not internalized as truthful: women DO want a strong man who fights for them.
There is a dignified way to fight, though. There is no way that I would appreciate or endorse Mr. Wonderful laying himself at the wheels of my truck to express his love for me--knowing that there was a good chance I'd hit reverse and run over his pathetic limp body in the process.
Acting in a manner that is not in his best interest while fighting for me would NOT be attractive to me.
However, if he were to share with me a little of his pain while maintaining control over it AND fight for me and our M, it would be a definite turn on. I never signed on the dotted line to take care of my man, Seattle. I signed on to support him, but not to be his everything.
I'd like him to take care of himself, show a little vulnerability and tell me how much I mean to him.
Do you see the difference in the approaches?
How do you think your W feels about how you are fighting for her? If you could change the way she sees things, what would you change, and how would you invoke it?
I'm awfully curious, because it sort of follows up on the conversations we had on the bar patio, while basking in the sun.
Hugs, special one.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Always asking the tough questions my friend, I guess thats why I like you. You challenge me to think and take a step back.
I see your point about the dignity and respect for her and for myself. I truly believe she also wants what you have stated.
I believe MS feels that I have made some great changes, I'm being vulnerable and emotional and these are good things for me. I believe she feels the basic, why now confusion and fears of going back. I believe she knows she has been acting unfair as of late, she has even made indirect comments about it.
Along with this I believe she feels suspicious because I'm bending over backwards. I'm doing things at the cost of my own self, and this does not respect myself, so how can she respect me? No wonder she is suspicious, and it may also appear weak if overdone.
I would change how MS views me as desirable. What is missing then? I've got all the basics completed, but now being someone strong and respectful to her and who she can lean on and gain support as well. Someone who will support her in her beliefs as much as my own. Someone she can cherish and allow herself to cherish. Someone she can be proud of to call her Husband.
What are my actions then you ask? Well I've already done them, now it is just time to monitor and prepare for the multiude of possible scenarios. Another sunny day in paradise here.
Quote: I’m a little embarrassed I’m considered the sensitive guy now. I’ve really been trying to speak her language and she is sensitive, so if I’ve gotten there I guess it is a good thing. Being sensitive isn’t easy though, I keep laying my heart out there hoping she will pick it up and take care of it.
Seattle, being the sensitive guy is a good thing! And it sounds as though you clearly understand the balance between being sensitive to someone else's needs and also being sensitive to your own.
Being the sensitive guy isn't easy, but what's the alternative? Being insensitive? Well, that doesn't work with most women I know, LOL.
Quote: If he were to share with me a little of his pain while maintaining control over it AND fight for me and our M, it would be a definite turn on. I never signed on the dotted line to take care of my man, Seattle. I signed on to support him, but not to be his everything. I'd like him to take care of himself, show a little vulnerability and tell me how much I mean to him.
I agree with this. I don't want to be anyone's everything because it's a setup. I've been there, done that. It causes problems.
Sharing the pain while maintaining control over it is the key, in this woman's opinion. What's attractive is the sensitive man who is authentic and real, who takes care of himself, respects himself enough to set his boundaries and think about what he stands for. Confident enough not to just fight for me and the M (his own promise), but for himself-- and to know why he is doing that. Make sense?
As for the ladies running away when they want to be chased, well, I have never understood why people do that, and I wonder whether that is less a gender issue than it is an issue of self-confidence versus insecurity, whether it's a more complex issue. As you know, that is what my H did at first.
Many women know that you never get what you really want by faking it. You have to ask for what you want.
take care and keep monitoring. you sound great. wonder
Hi Seattle and Betsey, I find it really interesting you just finished the book wild at heart. I also am reading this book and find it very interesting. Goes into alot of what makes us men tick. I have to agree with you Betsey, but why then are our wives pushing us away so far. Everytime Seattle, Merrick or myself trys to be "the night in shinning armour" Its as if they get even more angery. I have to wonder had this happened earlier in our marriages if we could have saved them. It would just seem the resentment is off the meter and rising. The book regardless is great and I reccomend it to any man questioning his place. I found it after my wife said "I was well rounded" ( my words if you recall) trying to figure out if there was something to her boot camp style relevations and interogations. she has ways of making me talk... but seriously, Betsey is there anything you found out about your H's soul after reading the book?
Seattle, Your awefully quiet over here. I should probably check to see if you started a new thread. God Bless, eddy
