No, your h isn't afraid of you. He's afraid that if he touches you it may rekindle those warm feelings that are now currently stuff at the bottom of his soul. In his mind, you are the authority figure and for now, he's going to keep his distance because he doesn't know how you will react or what you'll say to him. Yes, I know, it's silly, but to them, this is a very real situation and doesn't want any pressure or additional guilt laid on him for his behavior. They all say things about us and/or the relationship to justify their running away. They think it's the relationship and us that are creating the feelings that they are experiencing right now...but it's not us...it's them and their unresolved childhood issues.
Your description of his hair, beard and mustache is pretty typical of how they take care of themselves. As for the way he's walking, yep, that's the depression talking. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts having some health issues, i.e., illness, aches and pains, etc. They do tend to be sickly during this time.
Bee, I'm very sorry you are going through this. I know you want to make things better for him and you are doing all that you can when it comes to visiting w/the children, but you can't fix him. You can be a friend, listen and validate him if and when he wants to talk. Keep those expectations very, very low for now.
Keep moving forward and try to keep the focus on you and your children.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you Job & Esame. H came back from his parents in quite a good mood, even happy I'd say. We had some admin stuff to do together before he left for the airport, leaving for a business trip. Maybe spending time with kids finally start to make him happy again? My MIL told me he didn't talk to them much, he was sleeping till lunch. So she only told him that he needs to be careful about what he is doing & that if what he does will leave permanent damage on the kids he should not expect she'll be there for him. He apparently had tears in his eyes (also new: as emotional as he was before crisis, for quite some time now he did not show much emotions, just anger).
The two days that followed he e-mailed me & kept replying even when there was no need. But I don't read anything into it. I just don't get it how one day he is so down & 24 hour later seems happy. MIL said he's looking forward to our vacation. Me not so much. I hope I will not get used to spending time with him again & then be devastated when we come back to reality after holidays. That's what worries me. It's not that I hope or expect to rekindle something between us during our trip, absolutely not, I'm too hurt & don't want to find myself back into it so soon, but I do worry about what it will do to me. When we are spending time together, especially the 4 of us, it feels so normal, meant to be... Pity he doesn't see it that way.
I'm starting to get preoccupied with thoughts about what we need to discuss after we're back from holidays & how to approach it. I know I shouldn't think about it now but it's me: a planner! I gave him 6 months of "freedom" but after the holidays I expect he gets more involved in the life of the kids. We will also need to agree on finances. Not that there would be a problem but I just want to have an official agreement to avoid problems later. Our separation was very spontaneous, never discussed details, for me it was just a trial one, for a few months, but now it seems it's time to discuss. I know I shouldn't think about it before & during holidays as I only want to bring it up when we'll be back. Just can't help myself.
Looks like the conversation will happen before our holidays... H said he found a new apartment to rent, would like to sign before holidays. A lease for 1 year. Told me details about the flat & several times repeated that he needs a place to stay & needs to secure it now. I asked him if he was sure he wants that one because it's expensive & not furnished etc. He again repeated that he needs a place to stay etc. So I started to wonder if it was his way to make me offer him to live in our house until he finds something more appropriate. He told me once that after I kicked him out I cannot expect him to beg me to let him come back home. I see that he is much more talkative & emotional with the kids, maybe he misses them & knows that the only way to get close to them again is to live with them. Our house is big enough to have privacy if living under the same roof while separated. But I don't know if I'd manage. I admire HaWho! I got used to him not living with us. So, not sure what to do. Make the offer to come back home until he finds something better & let him decide. Or just let him rent this one, which will have big impact on our finances. He said he will not sign before I come back from my weekend. And asked we discuss when I'm back. I'm now sitting at the airport waiting for my flight back & really don't feel like having that conversation. I find it weird. If he didn't want to come back home he'd just sign the lease & would inform me afterwards. Just like he did 6 months ago with the one he is renting now. He wouldn't make me part of that decision. I asked him if when thinking of options how to share kids I need to take into consideration that someone will live with him, he said no. I need to sleep on it...
Hi Bee, I don't have much to offer, just letting you know I'm following along and wish you the best. What you describe is strange but there is no figuring them out. Idk if I would want my w back at home unless she wanted to work on things, just be sure to put yourself and kids first.
Hi all, I hope you are all having great summer. I'm trying to catch up on reading while on holidays. I need to do some journaling of what happened since last time I posted but I was very busy before holidays and during first days of vacation tried to be off Internet to clear my head.
Thank you Kyh, you are right! I'm not sure either. We don't talk about it now. I don't want to spoil the vacation.
Second week on vacation, still going fine. Sometimes it feels so normal that I need to control myself not to reach for his hand or call him "darling". He hugged me long & firm for my birthday & called me my "cute" name twice. But as Job insisted, I have no expectations, keep my distance, am nice but not overdoing it.
I am looking at him and I feel sorry for him. He looks so aged. He put on weight, is tired, sleeps a lot, even during the day, on the bus, on the train, plane... Every opportunity he has. He forgets things. Forgot his suitcase, I was waiting for it & brought it to him, paid with credit card & forgot to take it, the cashier lady run after him, we discuss something in the evening, in the morning he asks questions as if we never discussed it before... He also had yellowish skin around his eyes. I'm trying to google it as I am almost sure that I read somewhere it's also a sign of depression but cannot find it anywhere... Now that he rested and got a bit of sun it seems fine again. At times he seems happy. He had one angry day. I told him if he's not well to stay in bed and not to pass it on us. He kept distance but went along & tried to be nice.
He also makes sure I see what he's doing on his phone. It's nice but I must say, I don't care anymore. The more I see how broken he is & how unfair he was/is towards me, I just wonder why I would like to waste my time with someone who does not appreciate me. At the same time, spending holidays the 4 of us together does seem normal & right. Well, becoming unstable myself...
I'll come back soon to journal what happened before holidays. We had some discussions but I am starting to realise it's just a waste of my time. I don't think he knows what he wants apart for blaming me for everything & justifying his actions by pointing out how terrible I am, scoring points. This was before vacation, peace and harmony during vacation (so far)...
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I'm back! Shortly after the holidays I got a problem with my eye and was forbidden to read, do sports, lift stuff, etc. It was really annoying as there was so much to do at home, at work and also a lot of catching up to do on this site. Well, doctors were very strict. I still need to take it easy though and cannot do sports. That's a big problem because not doing sports I find myself being much more emotional.
So, our holidays were really nice. I was uneasy about going until the very last day but it turned out to be nice. The kids were happy that we went the 4 of us and I must admit that me too. It was not as before but it still felt right.
We did have one incident when my son forgot a knife that he bought as a souvenir in his backpack and the airport security found it. The security guys were really nice and tried to persuade us to mail it home so he does not have to part with it. He was very attached to it. My son never asks for anything, never made any scene about wanting something etc. and this time he was just standing there, really sad, not saying anything. My h left the second they got the knife out of his backpack and let me deal with it. I went to ask him what we do as one of us had to go and mail it (just outside security check). He asked me rather aggressively if it was his fault. I said calmly that it wasn't but we need to deal with it, cannot send a 13yo to do that. He told me that he would have to wait again in the line for security check and we could miss the plane to which a security guys said they will escort him so no need to worry about it (and we still had 2 hours to boarding anyway). Then he said the post office may be closed. They told him it was not an issue, it's a 24/7 service. So then he went. Coming back (7minutes later) started to tell me something regarding this very aggressively from far away. I told him that he won't yell at me and the conversation is over. Then he was all upset sitting at the gate further away from us, so stupid me, I wanted to make him feel better and tell him how much his son appreciated it etc. I should have known better. It was all my fault. I always decide things my way and he needs to execute my orders. He's just a service provider to us... I got really upset that it's not just me who he treats like this but also his son. So I told him a few things I thought about him and his state (a little slip on my side...). Then we didn't talk until lending when I asked what do we do, do we take cab or... He started to yell at me, asking if I really think that after such a violent attack on him he will talk to me normally etc. He then told me that he does not want me in his life and I should finally face it. That he cannot stand me.
That was the only part of the holidays when we stayed with friends so when we came to their place I played it cool. But then did not talk to him once we were in our room alone. After some time he tells me good night. So I replied good night. And he started apologizing. That he knows it's not just me and he's sorry. I cut him off, told him I'm tired and in no mood to discuss it but he needs to do something about himself because I will not tolerate such behavior towards me, neither kids anymore (he had one incident with each of them too during the first week of holidays too).
We never came back to it and the rest of holidays went fine. Even though he is not himself, he kept forgetting everything, was very tired and the only time when he was alive again was in a city where he studied for 3 years and he wanted to show us everything. And some things he wanted to show specifically to me (progress!).
When we arrived home, he put his suitcases in his car and left right away. I said bye and once he was safely gone I lost it. Could not stop crying. It was so weird to be back to reality as it is now after spending almost one month as a family again. But then in the evening, when I was in my bed alone, I felt relieved. Really strange.
Something must have changed for him though. Since the trip, he contacts kids all the time (well, via texts to s15 as s13 is quite distant now with him). Comes to see them almost every day. And was very present helping me, bringing me to the doctor, emergency etc. when I had the eye problem.
I'll journal more soon.
Job, thank you for the link. I read it some months ago when I discovered the site and it's always good to re-read. I read it during holidays (when he could not see what I'm reading). What I meant in my post though was looking specifically for the yellow skin around the eyes - part of depression symptoms? I dint't find it anywhere but remember reading it somewhere... Even though I did not find the reference to it in the link, I was happy you posted it. After the incident we had it was really helpful to remind myself what he's going through...
I've never heard of the yellowing around the eyes as a part of depression. I do know that physicians do check the eyes of people who are vitamin B-12 deficient.
I'm glad the trip went well and I'm really glad to read that he's contacting the children more.
Please take care of yourself and be careful w/your eye.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
First off, you're a lot stronger than you realize.
I am glad that the holiday went, mostly well.
What do you think of the threads that Cadet provided you to read? Any questions, do some things make sense?
I have to say the one thing I found REALLY interesting was the night he wanted to talk and you didn't. That sort of surprised me...most LBSers would give up a kidney to have that type of talk...any type of talk that started with an apology in fact. I find it interesting enough to wonder, is this how you guys normally talked before all this happened? Do both of you sort of shut each other down when the other felt the need to talk?
Well the holiday is over, and now as nice as it was, this is the real life. This is your norm.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
