Just to clarify on the "no goodnight", my thinking was that she was upstairs at the time, and I would have had to make a trip upstairs solely for the purpose of saying goodnight, which I would have done pre-DB, but it felt needy to do it last night. So it wasn't like I just walked right by her and ignored her -- just didn't seek that little conversation out like I normally would have.
Yes, it does change the analysis if she wasn't in the room. so your 180 is to not seek her out to initiate communication (not ignoring her as I thought), that would be a positive 180.
ps - you mention my tough analysis, please don't think anyone is disciplining you or degrading you because of what your doing or saying.. We have all been right where you are, and all express our help in different ways. I don't beat around the bush, because I like straight talk. If you were to go back and read my thread, you will see it took a lot of 2x4's by others to get me to understand what I told you, now I just want to share to help others.
pps - take darkness' homework questions seriously, focusing on you is where you need to be, and setting goals to work towards goes a long way. by having long term goals, you can easily set the short and mid term goals to get there, and it feels good every time you hit one of those milestones.
Sorry, Coconut -- I just saw your post. Thanks for the follow up. I definitely don't mind 2x4s at this point. Everything I've done to date hasn't worked, and I'm willing to try anything I can and really appreciate the insight and help, however worded.
Making my list as we speak.
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
I had a hard, confusing night and morning. Our nanny quit suddenly last night without warning, and we don't have a backup. As I've mentioned previously, my W and I both have pretty demanding jobs so really need a nanny for afternoon pickups and care and some full days in the summer just for the family to function. Inlaws are some help but far less than I think we anticipated when we moved here. It's not presently clear how we're going to handle childcare over the next few weeks.
Anyway, the nanny quit by e-mail with no notice, and my W pretty much decompensated completely. Crying and, while not exactly ranting, talking a mile a minute (not like her, at all -- she's usually very guarded) about how unsatisfying her life is, how little joy or fun there is in it, how she feels like she's been reduced to a robotic existence just serving others, etc. She tried calling her mother to see if she could fill in today, and her mother (who couldn't help because she prior plans) apparently told her something to the effect of "I told you about my plans ____ days ago" (we actually don't commit her schedule to memory, LOL), and "Life is hard, you just have to roll with it". W then really got upset, got into it with her mother some and hung up. She came up to me and said "You've always been so amazed that I don't want to share my feelings; well, that's why-- because when I do, I end up feeling even worse". That was an issue she's cited in the past for why/how she started losing her feelings for me (I wasn't a good listener), although I know I've made huge strides in that department over the last two years by meditating, going to IC and reading a [expletive] load of self-help books.
There was only one real dagger in there. At one point she said "I'm not sure I can make it two years (referencing the time frame she's indicated she's willing to ease our kids into the idea that their parents are going to divorce) in a life that has no fun in it". So I had to confront those feelings and the reality that she's absolutely counting the days.
Anyway, I'm there, taking this all in, trying to remember my DB rules, getting rocked by the 2-year comment and trying not to show it, not really being able to quiet my brain due to the intensity of the moment, knowing I'm supposed to listen and validate but also thinking about how I can't get too pressing or smothering or do anything out of a motivation to score relationship points. I think I was able to be pretty present and calm in the end, but I don't honestly know.
This AM she went right back into the same mode before leaving for work. I think I did a little better than the night prior, just trying to be quiet but present and non-judging. I really just wanted to hug her (she really reminded me a lot of our children when they are really worked up and upset) but I knew that's a definite no-no.
I guess it was good she shared this stuff with me(?), but it's also daunting knowing how dissatisfied she is with her [italics]entire[/italics] life. I was left with the feeling that I'm only part of what she dislikes about her existence. She pretty much dislikes it all: the job, parenting, me, her relationship with her family. It doesn't give me much hope that anything at all that I do is going to matter even if I somehow were to end up being the greatest DB practitioner of all times. And, honestly, I don't really have any hope, at all, that she's not going to divorce me. I do maybe feel the first little breath of detachment setting in, though, because nothing I do at this point is going to matter -- it's her issues she has with her life and the choices she made to get where she is. If she doesn't resolve any of what's hurting her so much, it isn't going to matter at all what I do. What can you do with someone who looks at the prospect of being a single mom and is convinced it will give her a life that's more "fun" and not so robotic? I live in fear of losing half of my kids' lives to divorce, and she sees it as a path to a better life.
She's going out of town this weekend. I'm really looking forward to just focusing on the kids and not having to deal with any of this until at least Sunday night.
Does anyone think it a good idea for me to send a quick e-mail to her to let her know I heard her and to validate her feelings (well, other than the ones that suggest a zeal for a divorce)? Any advice would be really appreciated. Thanks for "listening". I realize I probably write way too much, but I find it cathartic to get it out, and my therapist is on vacation until next Wednesday :>.
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
I recommend the Rhett Butler approach. When she arrives home and starts whining about things, put your arms around her and say, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a d@mn." Kiss her. Then, haul her off to the MBR.
I recommend the Rhett Butler approach. When she arrives home and starts whining about things, put your arms around her and say, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a d@mn." Kiss her. Then, haul her off to the MBR.
Yeah, that would be awesome, but we're not even close to that being possible right now, I'm afraid.
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
Does anyone think it a good idea for me to send a quick e-mail to her to let her know I heard her and to validate her feelings (well, other than the ones that suggest a zeal for a divorce)?
Hmmmmm. The bolded makes me question whether or not you understand the concept of validation fully.
Validation does NOT mean agreement. So, you can validate her feeling that divorce is the best way forward even if you dont agree that it is.
darknes -- yeah, I guess I don't get it yet. I was just not going to go into it in that particular e-mail is all I meant. It's exhausting for me to even think about the possibility of divorce at this point. Do you think I should?
Reading your post, I realize I have no clue what to write.
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
darknes -- yeah, I guess I don't get it yet. I was just not going to go into it in that particular e-mail is all I meant. It's exhausting for me to even think about the possibility of divorce at this point. Do you think I should?
Reading your post, I realize I have no clue what to write.
Im not great at it either, but as an example:
If W says "I want to get a divorce", there are a few ways you can respond:
1) "Im sorry you feel that way". This is sympathy. It's OK, but it doesnt really provide the empathy that comes with validation. It wouldnt let her feel heard.
2) "I agree with you. Thats a good choice." In some cases this is true. But if it ISNT, then you shouldnt say it.
3) "Here are reasons X, Y, and Z why thats a bad idea." Im sure weve all been here, right? This is INvalidating.
4) "I can see how ABC would cause you to feel that way." It's things like this that you are going for.
Id read the validation cheat sheet. Carefully. Often.
I don't think an email would be helpful unless maaaybe if there is something you feel you really screwed up on, but I'm not getting that sense from your description. Sounds like you made it through ok. If there are some things you simply wished you had handled a bit differently, perhaps figure those out so you're more ready for next time it comes up.
Regarding her "not being able to make it 2 years" comment, I wouldn't focus too much on that. Remember the whole "not believing anything she says" thing. Also, you already know your wife is unhappy. and uncertain. and struggling with a lot of things and flailing around trying to figure out what will make her happy. Right? Know that you're going to hear that expressed in many different ways by her as your situation procedes... try not to let any particular variant affect you too much.
Me, WW - Upper 30s BD - Apr 1 2016 EA - Apr 7 2016 (discovered; ongoing for months; did not confront right away) Confronted wife about EA - May 17 Wife sent NC email to OM - July 11
Thanks, EDF. Re the e-mail, I feel like I avoided some of the traps I've fallen into in the past, but I was mostly just there and present, maybe occasionally getting in some validation phrases like "I understand" and "that must feel like [_____]". My thinking was that maybe a short, concise e-mail would fill in the gaps of what I wished I'd said. I can also see how it could feel to her like I was pushing too hard or trying to earn brownie points.
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
