Phase 2

[Sotto]

Hi Feyth, I'm sorry to hear that. Do you have a L yourself? If not, I would suggest engaging one.

Your timescales together are similar to ours and the fact you moved out too. You are M and so everything would be classed as a marital asset I expect. In our sitch, we agreed to each take back the amount we bought in to the M and then we split assets accrued during cohabitation and M (7 years) 50/50.

XH suggested some daft splits of assets (always substantially in his favour) through that process but I quietly held firm until this formula (which actually came from him originally) was applied. It would have rankled with me to be a) cheated on and b) screwed over in a settlement - but I wasn't vindictive about it, just clear about what would be okay for me.

Did you buy the house together?? Xx

[Pax_luv]

Thanks for the reply and insight Sotto! Im going to glaze over your questions for a moment, because I just want to put something out there....

After h and I had our ugly encounter. I asked him if he wouldn't mind having a sit down with me this week in an effort to get on the same page (or close to the same book) in terms of the D. He said ok..... And then the flood gates opened. I stood there listening to him for an hour talk about how we never should have gotten married. How It was a mistake. How I didn't understand him. How I was miserable and there was nothing he could do to help me. How I was the one who let the marriage die.... And on and on and on. He did say that he hasn't been happy since the separation. He said he tried everything humanly possible to make the m work. I stood there and listened the best that I could. Proud of myself for not breaking down. I did let him know that I own my part of the M breaking down, but wanted more than anything to make it work. I let him know that I knew I could only work on myself during the separation and continue to do everything I can to understand my faults, make improvements, etc. He told me that it didn't work. (Meaning me doing those things to make myself better didn't work). Ouch.

At the end of the convo, we kind of agreed that he would start the d process and that was that.

Then today, I get a text from him apologizing for being insensitive about the divorce process and that he understood this must be tough for me. He came to this realization about reading up on the d process. He suggested we sit and talk things out soon. I thanked him for the consideration and agreed to the discussion.

So, that's where I'm at now. I pulled out DR, but am trying to find reasons not to read it. I've been carrying it from room to room, but just don't know that i have the energy. I even chose polishing my silver jewelry over it.

I'm just not sure what to do. I really don't know. Surprisingly, I haven't been down in the dumps. It just is what it is, ya know?

Any advice? Feedback?

[Sotto]

Hi Feyth, so you know where he's at just now ((((((hugs))))))

I would say, if you don't want to D (or aren't sure) let him know that D is not what you want, however if that is what he wants to happen you respect his choice and he would need to file in that case.

That's what I told my XH anyway.....xx

[kml]

What I'm scared of he is a master manipulator and I've watched him in action. It's not about playing to win, it's about doing ANYTHING not to lose.

His patience and compassion is almost nonexistent and has been for years... Maybe his whole life.

I don't think he would care for me if I was sick or just uncomfortable. He just doesn't have that capacity.

Just reminding you, Feyth, of a few things you've said about your H. None of these qualities make him sound like an appealing choice for the future father of your children, or even for a long-term relationship.

It's important to own our own stuff and work on improving ourselves, but seriously - this guy hasn't really been a partner. He made impulsive life-altering decisions without consulting you, was likely cheating more-and-earlier than you know, and still lays all the blame on you.

I suspect his contacting you after your discussion is either:
- a ploy to get you to agree to his financial terms. Do NOT agree to anything financial until you have discussed it with your attorney. And if you don't have one, get one now.

- a backtracking to try to keep you on the hook a little longer as his "Plan B", just in case.

- a brief moment of actual shame over his behavior (don't worry, it won't last but a second.)

Ironically, I accidentally ran across a very old email from my ex yesterday, from when he finally announced he was leaving. In it, he's SO invested in trying to still be seen as the "good guy", (narcissistic traits) that he's telling me all about how he "tried" but he "just can't make me happy and I deserve to be free to find someone who will".

Well actually, I was very happy in my marriage, and I'm a relentlessly cheerful person by nature. The only thing making me unhappy at all at that time was his cheating, constant criticism, and him bailing out on the marriage!

But he had to think of himself as a good guy, never could admit to himself that he just wanted to leave a perfectly loving, kind, smart and caring wife to go out and find somebody different because HE was depressed.

But one thing he was right about - I did deserve someone who could love me better than he was at that time. And EVERY man I dated after him treated me better and couldn't understand what an idiot he was to give up someone like me. My boyfriend now actually thanked my ex for divorcing me, so that I was available for boyfriend to find!

[Pax_luv]

Sotto and KML,
Thanks for the words and advice

I agree KML, I don't feel like there was any remorse there at all. I think it was still manipulative and underhanded. Just because he's got an ugly heart doesn't mean that I am going to have one. It's just a really hard situation... As you all know too well! I'm preaching to the choir here.

I just don't know if I give up. I'm definitely not fighting the D and I'm not sure I even want the R anymore either. Such a weird place to be in.

[Esame]

Have you got a lawyer Fayth? I think you should get some advice as soon as possible. What exactly is he asking you to do? Are you prepared if things get nasty?

[Esame]

Sorry Fayth I'm on my phone so I didn't see the last page of replies before posting. I think it is not unusual to feel the way you do, between D and R, but isn't that Limbo? A form of hell? Just ask yourself what you actually have to lose, you are in a good place, you can do better than that.
Sending you hugs x

[ciluzen]

Hey, Feyth.

This is such an emotional time... for both of you. So much hurt and anger and...well, all the emotions at once and in cycles. Try to remember, just like our emotions and feelings change during this crisis minute to minute, so do theirs. That's why we are supposed to believe nothing they say and 50% of what they do. You did a great job of keeping your cool and being non-reactive. I think that is the key.

It aint over til its over, and its over when you say it is. Your MLCer is worth whatever effort you feel you can put forth. The key word in our "label" we've given them is "crisis". Our S is in crisis.

I don't believe most people are intentionally nasty. I believe they act based upon whatever their emotional state is. If it is fear, they will either lash out at you to make you go away or they will run away themselves. If it is sadness or hopelessness, they may withdraw completely or reach out to you or another for comfort. You have a history with your MLCer. Don't ever believe that he doesn't remember that and have mixed emotions as each memory pops up. He is going to want you to be there one minute, then not the next. He will lash out at you and then want to hug you. And then there's the guilt as he realizes some of the things he's doing or has done.

This is a man who loved you. Most likely still does if he's still in your life. This is a man in crisis. This is a man in emotional turmoil, a blender of mixed up emotions. He's not your enemy. Let him do his work on him. Your best bet is to be patient and listen as you did.

I don't ascribe to mind reading...I have no idea what my H went through growing up...the subtleties of his experience. I don't even know what his day-to-day experiences and perceptions of them are. Why try to figure out a reason for his behavior based upon YOUR experiences since they are not his? He'll only come up short or, worse, you'll start to see him as manipulative, mean, stupid, childlike... all of the negative labels that mean nothing and are akin to name-calling in their ability to help or understand the situation. I'm only now hearing stories (after 26 years!) and memories that have shaped his perceptions and formed his being ...things that are coming out in this crisis. He needs a listener...I will listen. He is slowly showing me that he trusts me to listen. I think this is your best bet, too.

If you can listen, and get him to trust you to listen, you will learn what his needs are and where he needs validation. This hopefully leads to trust, a big responsibility, but a necessary component in friendship. And right now, he will need a friend. And you will need to be that if you want to have any chance to build a new marriage. As has been said before, your old one is now dead. Time to rebuild on a firm platform that transcends the ravages of time (MLCers are dealing with that darn mirror, aches and pains, and fear of aging).

Protect yourself; GAL to keep you sane, set boundaries, get a L, create a defensive position, gird your loins for battle, yada yada yada. But above all, remember you liked this guy. Loved him. Don't worry about things you said while emotionally venting. We all go through saying things when we're angry or sad...venting. Venting emotions are transitory, not enmeshed. You know how you feel down deep. Is he worth it? Is he worth not only the battle, but the whole friggin' war? Only you know the answer to that.

[Pax_luv]

Thank you Esame and Ciluzen,

Ciluzen- your post instantly grounded me. Thank you for the time and consideration.

I'm in a place where I don't know what to do to help this (in whatever direction). I've been practicing the LRT for so long that I feel like these small moments (whether significant or not) are a test to employ another DB strategy. I'm not sure if that makes sense.... But I've spent months Galing, acting as if, moving forward, etc that I miss the signs that I might be able to step in and be a friend.

On that token, I don't want to be taken for granted in some manipulation ploy. I hate games.... Hate em... Hate em.... Hate em. I don't even like board games!

Still moving forward one step at a time.

[pinn]

ugh Feyth, I feel for you. That is a great post from Ciluzen. I feel you on the confusion on what to do. It is so hard! Maybe you just need to think about what you really really really want. Hang in there.