Moving on

[Coconut]

Painter, I am wondering if you noticed a difference in your H when he was actively in an A and when he wasn't. I'm currently in early piecing and I want to stop all snooping / verifying for my own sake. My thought is that the first time I immediately noticed the difference in my W's attitude and am thinking I would notice it again if something were to happen in the future.

But then I wonder if they just learn from their mistakes the first time and get better at hiding it.

[Sotto]

I can understand that. I guess my concern would be - it may be a cheese less tunnel and he may well not give you what you seek.

For me, the justice in these situations plays out in a much longer way.....in a tortoise and hare kind of fashion. By the LBS taking control, moving forward any living a good life.

JMHO of course....😊xx

[Painter]

Painter, I am wondering if you noticed a difference in your H when he was actively in an A and when he wasn't. I'm currently in early piecing and I want to stop all snooping / verifying for my own sake. My thought is that the first time I immediately noticed the difference in my W's attitude and am thinking I would notice it again if something were to happen in the future.

But then I wonder if they just learn from their mistakes the first time and get better at hiding it.

Yes, I think I did. He was angrier at me, more withdrawn, sadder. But it was different throughout.

[JujuB]

I see it a little differently. I think of it more like an injustice or a crime that I have a natural need for restitution from. In the state H and I lived in, is is a crime. A misdemeanor, but still.

If your home was burglarized or your car stolen, or your daughter raped or killed, we would all feel the perpetrator should be held accountable, right? We wouldn't think of that need for justice as something that was about ego, or that we would be stronger if we didn't pursue the issue.

Most women are raped by someone they know. A beloved grandfather or uncle may have molested children in the family. The family is devastated. Someone they loved and have known all their lives, have done something horrific. The individual family members will handle it differently - some will go into denial, some will blame the victim, some will feel he should be punished. It's hard when someone you love does something bad. It can fracture the family. People take sides and never get past it.

I don't think I necessarily need to hear H say that he regrets losing me. I mainly want him to admit that what he did was wrong and hurtful and that his choice to have an A has has nothing to do with our M problems.

Him using our M problems as an excuse to have and A and replace me with OW is sort of like if he had never learned how to drive, got a car and crashed it, and then blamed the crash on the car and thought if he just got a new car, he wouldn't crash again.

Painter,

I completely understand how you feel. I want my husband to regret and suffer and acknowledge as well. You are so lucky you are in a state that somewhat supports marital contracts. In fact, right now I am in one of those livid moods consummed with anger at how he wasted my life because he was a irresponsible, greedy, selfish, pathetic, coward.

But here's the thing, it's like expecting actual remorse from a sociopathic serial killer. There is something wrong with them or they would not have done this and certainly not the way that they did. They can say anything but it has no substance.

Holding onto it just keeps us in a bad spot. And I do it too. But it's getting less frequent. It used to be 24/7 now it's maybe certain time of month or with certain triggers.

I look forward to one day not feeling this way at all. And I hope that for you too.

[JujuB]

Painter

Do you ever suspect that some of our anger is really at ourselves? Because yeah husbands treated us like .... But they could not have done that unless we allowed it.

I am so mad that I gave up my pride for someone so unworthy. But that's on me.

[Painter]

I regret certain things I did to contribute to the breakdown of or marriage, but I don't blame myself for allowing H to treat me poorly. It's on him, not on me. I have learned valuable things about myself in the process and don't really regret much.

[Painter]

Quick update: It's been really tough lately. I'm staying reasonably active but have had some hard days and nights.

I'm taking in the thought that WH is not a nice person who is just misguided, but actually a serial cheater (once with me but has cheated on previous wives) and has little remorse or empathy (he told me about the empathy part last year and said he wondered if something was wrong with him).

It's a lot of processing to pull out emotionally from a relationship of 15 years, and deal with the fact that I was married to someone else than I thought I was.

[Phoebe]

You know, I'm working on the exact same realization, Painter, and it really is a very difficult thing to process.

Like you, I've come to realize that my H is not a nice person that's taken the wrong path. At some point in our marriage he changed and was simply pretending to be a nice person. He has also showed no true signs of any remorse or regret. He told me did some online tests for narcissism and sociopathy. He also, of course, had to tell me that he didn't score high for either diagnosis, so he could deny that there was anything wrong with him.

The bottom line is that on some level he knew he should feel worse than he did, but he simply did not.

I was just talking about this with my therapist today, actually. It's a lot to arrive at, and I am also wondering who I was actually married to all those years. Was he ever the person he appeared to be, and if he changed, then when did it happen and how did I miss it? It's all very troubling.

I search back for red flags, and they are few and far between, and subtle even now. Everything I've learned has been after the fact, or hindsight.

All I know is that my thoughts on him are changing rapidly at this point. I think you are getting there, too.

(((((Painter)))))

[Painter]

Phoebe, in spite of everything, I'm glad that you're not being yo-yo'ed by your H like I have been over the last 2 years. I think the distance is to your advantage, and that you have your own place that you get to keep for yourself. You get a more even trajectory and fewer setbacks with no mixed messages.

(For some reason, I envision your place sort of like Hobbiton - a safe little pocket in a stormy world. )

I've been wondering if it's a case of our H's choosing partners they admired, and then they start feeling like they are less, so they find someone who is lesser than them (sorry if this sounds arrogant, but most places I read that people affair 'down') so they can feel better about themselves.

H talks poorly of OW but I think he sees himself as her rescuer/hero.

[Phoebe]

Yes, i can definitely see how you've been played for a long time, and that is an awful thing to do to someone.

My H left, then strung me along with false hope for 3 1/2 months (fence-sitting, in hindsight) before I found out that things were so much worse than I knew (PA, etc.). Since then, he's made no pretense of remorse or interest in our M.

Basically, I think I kind of hit bottom after the PA smackdown, and I've just been climbing out of the hole since. Distance from him, having my own place to bond to, and being near my family has definitely been my saving graces. I'm able to keep busy and engaged with other people, and it gives me a measure of peace to have my animals and land.

My L had me look at H's and OW's photo feeds today to see if I could figure out where he is these days, and I saw another picture of her. She's not very cute in her recent photo. She's OK, I guess, but she's younger than me by 7 years yet doesn't look it. I suspect she's damaged in some way, possibly from her own failed marriage, and maybe that lets him feel better about himself (after all, he said he felt inferior to me). Beyond that, I know she's educated, and that's about it. Maybe it's an affair down, but I don't know.

Anyway, enough about my H!!! He is not worth my time and energy.

I hope that you get a good night of dreamless sleep, Miss Painter!