I haven't identified any exact goals. Baby steps are coming one way or another. I am staying in the camper at my parents' house, trying to be somewhat self sufficient. I have a couple things I need to do, like finish refinancing the house.
Still frustrating dealing with xW. She signed D9 up for an activity, it is 2 days a week, happens to land on my days 3 out of 4 times that she goes. She waited to tell me (through my mom of course) the morning that it started. So, brought my D9 to it of course. xW is irresponsible as usual. I am getting really tired of her thinking she is the parent, I am just some guy that she "allows" some visitation.
The D is done, except child support isn't finalized yet. Her atty finally, after many months, addressed support, and asks for the world, what a surprise!
My kids are pretty cool.. I may be biased? They are happy, creative, want to hang out with me in the camper instead of my parents' house, which is great. Weather isn't so great though. I am very much looking forward to getting back into the house, one month from today... though as soon as the support starts it's going to be really tight fins.
I don't have the weekend with the kids planned out yet, but there are a couple options on the table.
The kids didn't talk about their mom, I didn't ask, I'm not even curious anymore. It feels so great to not be impacted by her anymore. The last few things I have heard, I was upset for a couple of seconds, let it pass, and it was completely gone. Not that long ago it used to be so devastating, I made such a big deal out of the smallest things, this is a serious relief for me! She went and did something fun with them all weekend. I was actually glad. She's not doing it as well as I would, she is digging herself a financial hole trying to entertain the kids, but that is a win-win for me. When she is filing bankruptcy, or can't afford a house because she blew all the money I gave her in the D on "having fun", that will be her problem and only hers. Maybe then she will understand why I was trying to control her spending.
My D9 noticed I had new sunglasses in the camper, and asked why. I told her for boating. She asked why I had 4 pairs, I told her in case someone else came along. D9 said "you mean like FF#1" and said her name. They haven't met FF#1 yet, and I don't plan to have them meet any time soon, but D9 seems completely comfortable with the idea, I thought that was strange. S11 doesn't comment on it much.
My withdrawals from FF#1 let up fairly quickly, and luckily it didn't revert to xW. I still look forward to my next adventure with FF#1 though. And I do wonder if I could potentially have a future with her, a happy healthy person.
I texted FF#3 some last night... sharing our stories about our ex's, she's another one with a manipulative ex. It is amazing how much alike people's stories are, FF#1, 2, and 3, and myself. We all received some version of "you don't love me" or "you don't love me enough," and we all tried to prove otherwise instead of noticing the signs and walking/running away. All our ex's reverted to childish behaviors in the face of confrontation instead of being an adult and just accepting that maybe, just maybe, they contributed to the problems, even just a little bit. All the while we were always immediately apologetic and accepting our part.
I don't think FF#1 or #2 qualify for codependents, at least no where near as bad as myself. FF#3 I don't have a clue, she has some other "needy" issues going on apparently. All 3 had ex's that have some drug issues, so the verdict is still out I guess.
So, what happens when you put 2 codependents together when neither is the abuser? Do the same problems still come up? Or they live happily ever after? Or there's just no attraction because the subconscious "need" isn't being fulfilled? Maybe if I read V's super-post in my thread enough times, the answer is there?
Well, I reverted last night. Not to necessarily missing xW, but definitely to anger toward her. Kept me up until about 2 am, had to get up at 5 am. I thought of taking something to help me sleep too late, and was worried it wouldn't be worn off by morning. I listened to some self-hypnosis to help me sleep.
Met with IC today... She had some extremely helpful/interesting things to share, might have been the best session yet.
One thing IC explained.... spending time with FF#1 was enjoyable. It kept my focus on the moment and not on xW. Once I didn't have FF as a distraction, left a void in my thoughts that automatically filled with xW. I felt FF was filling a need, IC felt FF was good practice to learning to enjoy the moment.
IC also said about the codependence thing, noticing it is "growing"... Even if it is still there. She has the opinion that all relationships, romantic or friends, cause growth. Definitely a different opinion than I hear on this forum. She encouraged me to continue the relationship with FF wherever it may lead, but being cautious and communicating with each other our needs and our fears shows continuation of healthy growth.
She asked the million dollar question.... If xW wouldn't have left, I never would have expereinced this "growth." She said "aren't you happy about your growth?" My answer.... No! I would have preferred to keep my family and my life together had I been given the option, even if that meant a lack of growth. I don't feel like my R with xW necessarily stunted my growth, even if it was borderline toxic. I had a life, I loved it, I learned something every day. Yep, things with xW were challenging, but it was safe, unbelievably safe.
To challenge me further, she asked again where I would think the R with xW would be in 5 years. I don't know, if it had stayed on the trajectory it was on, with xW bad-mouthing me to the kids, it may have ended anyway. IC figured xW did that to try to get an ally in the battle against me. Can't say I would have thought of that.
Still, I think I would have continued to weigh the pros and cons every day, tried to make corrections to the coarse, allowed her to have her own thoughts as always, if it had never got worse I would have likely stayed, if nothing else for the kids sake. I still am way too afraid of this single-father thing.
I want nothing in my life except a romantic R...... Someone happy and healthy would be great. The mother of my kids would be even better, to be a complete family unit again.
Hats off to all who are successfully DB'ing, GAL, etc. Will I ever get there? I hope so. How? Tackling a whole lot of fears all at once I guess, so many that it feels overwhelming still.
I want nothing in my life except a romantic R...... Someone happy and healthy would be great.
Ok, I agree this is something that is missing in your life. it is missing in my life too. there is someone out there that needs all of that love you have to offer. you spending all that effort, kindness, love, passion...it will turn them around and make them into a happy person.
this will sound corny, but that person is you. building that love affair with you first and foremost is the start of all your deep appreciation for life and happiness.
you have that whole in your heart where you desire to be loved. yes, a new romance will cover you with joy...when that initial wave washes over it will be great. we've all felt it. yes. when it passes though...that hole will never be repaired...in fact as more time goes past the wounds of your past will only fester.
I am not saying don't date. I'm not saying don't try to be a friend to anyone else. in context, i agree with your IC that there can be growth in every relationship if you allow it. you are a grown man and make your choices.
I am asking you if you think that ignoring or minimizing your love for yourself is the healthiest thing you can do? I am asking you if you truely believe you5 have a deep love for yourself and dont need to foster that any more thanow you have?
you can tell me to bug off. I will understand. maybe I am off base. maybe I am projecting my situation onto yours. maybe I've just read hundreds and thousands of relationships that mirror mine and yours so very much, that it is difficult to not say anything. so i am sorry if I've overstepped here.
I feel for you and your family. I do. I wish I could give you a hug, look at your kids and tell them how much of a great father you are.
V, Zephyr, Juju, SH, all of your advice is priceless, thank you so much for providing moral support and some 2x4's.
I have a meeting with atty this week, to try to get my approach and path figured out for the support issues. I think it is going to be a battle.
Last week in FF#1's absence, and spending time with my kids, I felt stronger as the week progressed. Still felt some withdrawals, and felt it get worse Friday since I knew FF#1 would be returning that day. Noted for future reference.
Saturday, had an event to go to with a bunch of relatives, brought the kids, and it went well. During the event, I brought D9 and a couple of my younger cousins to the adjacent park, that was fun. Hung out in the camper quite a bit with the kids.
Sunday, brought the kids to a beach with a friend and his D9. Ran into a classmate from college and talked to him for a while.
Monday, after the kids went back to xW, FF#1 came to my parents' house, spur of the moment decision. She met my parents and brother, they got along well. We went for a short ride. Then watched a movie together, we had intelligent conversations about the movie, laughed at the same parts, sat close to each other, talked more after the movie. I never connected with xW like that.
I have plans for Saturday with a group.... I invited FF#1 to join me.
I am learning a lot from FF#1:
- First of all, to communicate with someone on my same maturity level is an incredible feeling. Friends have told me since xW left that I'll see that life will actually be better without xW. I didn't believe them, but am starting to see it now. My IC mentioned that why xW was always jealous when I talked to another female, is because I was able to have mature conversations on a level xW wasn't able to have. During the M, the thought of security with xW, even though it wasn't that good, was more important than ending it to look for someone who is a better match for me.
- Next, I can feel and identify my "neediness," and my attempts to fulfill those needs in an unhealthy way, almost real time. I think about or look at FF#1, think about how nice it would be to have someone, notice the need, and make a conscious decision to just keep my hands to myself!
- Respect for someone else's (FF#1's in this case) boundaries. FF#1 has made it clear she is not ready to start a new R. My "needs" drives me to think about ways to push things along faster, wanting to reach out and hold her hand, to cuddle just a little closer, to put my arm around her, wonder about going in for the kiss.... Yep, I had those thoughts, and I withheld the advances for all the reasons listed above.
It isn't easy to not act on those needs, it's quite frustrating in fact. But it is the right thing to do. I am sure the same thing would have been a problem for me if xW came back and had no remorse, or hadn't done the work, I would have let her come back too easily.
I don't really have any advise. Just reading with interest. There are a couple of other posters that seemed to do well with dating..eye tie, Tim R. And then some others that did not.
I don't really have a strong opinion on this as I have yet to read many situations from those that have dated successfully (They seem to stop posting)but i am very curious to see how they do down the line.
When I first came on, I would read these stories of spouses that cheated or serial cheated and think to myself, "go find yourself someone else. Your spouse is not worth it. You make them jealous". An eye for an eye. I don't really feel that way anymore.
There were times that i wanted to take a lover. There still is. How nice would it be to have physical intimacy, to have someone to talk to, to have someone around that likes me, to distract me from how depressing it is to be rejected and abandoned. But most of all to give me hope for my future.
I never went that route. I am glad that I did not. I know that because I am capable of going it alone, I will never be dependent on anyone in the future. I also know that I am not in need of others for ego gratification...
Now my situation is different from yours in that while we have been physically separated for a long time we are not legally divorced like you. I have not had an affair thrown in my face either. I too sometimes think, "hey life is short. I can make myself emotionally detach Have the typical rebound relationship" so far I haven't really wanted to go there or even sought that. I'm not sure yet if it would make me feel worse afterwards.
I don't know how much help this was. It's unchartered territory for me as well. Vanillas post is great advise for me too.
I think it's great that you are so self aware and have identified a key issue you need to work on.
My only other thoughts would be to continue to focus a lot on your children who definatly need you now more then ever. It sounds like you are really doing great with that. Being a parent is so hard! No one really has the right answers when it comes to raising kids so I understand how intimidating it can be. I don't know what the hell I am doing! I resorted to spraying my son with a water bottle to get him to stop climbing on the kitchen table!
Maybe immerse yourself in single parent support groups and books on parenting if your not sure. I think a lot of it is just giving them quality and non distracted time. When I'm with my son after school I stay away from phone and electronics and focus on him. Maybe it's as simple as that?
J, you make some good points, very good ones, and hearing about your thoughts on this subject adds valuable perspective to my experiences.
Weather permitting FF#1 will join me for the group activity. Poor weather we will do something else.
Ironic, I always felt this jealousy of people who seem to just happen upon a new mate so easily, many shortly after a divorce, and seem so happy in their new R. The cheaters find them while still married, but I doubt their standards are very high!
FF#1 coming into the picture the way she did, and when she did, was truly incredible odds. Someone that I knew since 4th grade, I wondered in high school if I would have been interested in her and decided not. But my wish list has changed now that I am older (and hopefully wiser), and she seems like a great fit. I know I could trust her to never lie, never cheat. The conversations we have are deep, and so meaningful. We talk about parenting often. She loves kids, I know she'd take mine in, and be a better influence in their lives than xW.
hey buddy, just checking in on your plans for the holiday?
hope you are enjoying yourself!
spending the weekend with my folks, i am grateful that they still are in relatively good health, they want to spend time with my kids and they are making dinner tonight
yes mom still pain in the a$$, that will never change. accepted who she is and not let it bug me anymore when she starts her rants. I think it is almost humorous now seeing the behavior...her trying to manipulate our thoughts. just funny. leaned so much from db!
Glad to hear things are going good for you. I still struggle with my mom, I haven't "let it go" yet. How are things with your W?
Thanks for checking in. I've been out having the time of my life, and haven't been on here for a while.
6/25, went and did the group activity at my old house with FF#1. The wife of the guy who bought the house told me xW unfriended her on FB. I checked later, xW unfriended all our common friends. She apparently thinks they are all taking sides? It's her loss.
6/27, went to FF#1's house until 3:00 in the morning, talked lots, cuddled a litltle.
6/28&29, hung out with my kids. 7/1 had them again. 7/2, brought the kids and boat to FF#2's house, a group there, my kids hung out with FF#2's kids and FF#2's sisters kids. I brought all the kids tubing, I was the only adult out with the kids, and I had a blast, I know the kids did. 7/3 went there again. FF#1 met me there, helped with the kids, she got to meet my kids, and they got along well, that was good. That night, dropped the kids off with xW in person. I was smiling and happy at the drop off, xW was bitter and cold, wouldn't even look at me. It really did feel good to be taking the high road again.
After dropping off the kids, I met with FF#1 to watch fireworks from my cousin's house. FF#1 came home with me.
As of that night FF#1 is now GF. The innocent church-goer surprised me with her passionate kisses that didn't stop for the next 2 days while she spent the rest of the weekend with me. Saw her again last night, same thing. I'll be spending this weekend with her too. She's met my parents and my brother.
7/4, I met GF's family, which seemed to go very well.
GF and I both realize how perfectly we could fit our lives together, and both have to put conscious effort into slowing things down. I can tell by every word she says that she is head over heels in love. I feel the same. We connect so well, conversations are so great. She is uptight about things going too fast, but comments over and over about how she has never felt so safe with someone before, to be able to share with me, that I challenge her with a fresh perspective, etc. This is obviously quite the change from the feedback I received from xW. XW and I never did connect like that from day 1, I remember how we argued steady.
I fully realize that GF is filling a bunch of needs for me. We spend more time apart than together, which allows time for reflection of those facts. I try to take a step back from it every day, to make sure she is right for me. There is nothing about her that scares me away or raises any flags. I just can't find any reason for fear other than just simply avoiding rushing.
It is interesting to reflect on the last few weeks. My feelings about xW have completely changed. XW is bitter, that is her problem and has no effect on me. When I hear she does something with the kids, I am happy that the kids get to enjoy time with her. XW is making it a challenge for the kids though. XW is living with her mother (grandma P), the kids are completely fed up with that grandma, as she is a bitter bltch also, the kids say all she does is yell at them. Supposedly xW found a house, the kids are excited to get away from grandma P!
I move back into my house on the 15th. It is going to be so great!! I have the kids a lot those first few days. GF is already making plans to be there when I don't have the kids. Sounds like this is going to be a great summer after all.
I do plan to read V's post a few more times, and see what resonates with me. And a lot of thinking is needed how to best proceed with the new GF.
Thanks again to all my forum friends, you have all been a huge impact in my life!!!
busy man...keep it up. Really getting out and being is soooo HUGE. it is a really good start.
moving back home must be exciting, I love anticipation for something big like this...it gives us something positive to look forward too. the projects, the comfort...all of it! let us know how it goes as it gets closer.
A new girl friend, she does sound wonderful. through all of this, i hope that you keep your 'work' in the back of your mind as something that is still left unfinished.
