We can still be friends

[liono]

her XH started becoming violent and abusive when their M was falling apart, so I think some bad memories there).

So she has been married before?
And her marriage is failing again.
Seems like a trend.

What is the common denominator here?

Yeah, same thought occurred to me. Trying to figure out a good way of asking "hey so were you this critical and judgy of H #1?"
I mean for sure, the guy was a Class 5 a*hole. But I'm willing to bet there is something more to it. Patterns. Not going to bring it up for now, just more focused on me, but we are going to MC so maybe it will come up.

[liono]

OMG cracking up here. Sounds like fun but.... maybe not for now hahaha

Funny you mention that warming-up though. I have noticed a few times when I felt she was being really critical or unfair and I just let her have it (we're talking 3-4 times in the entire M, the rest of the time I just internalized and built up the emotional wall). Result: a sincere apology and hugs and feeling closer afterward.

So my 180 here is "yell at my W more". Hmm. No, that's not quite it.
"Don't hesitate to stand up for myself" is closer. It's a fine line to walk though. Emotional rollercoaster being what it is, it's really easy to push too far.

[liono]

Yesterday W came back from overnight business trip. A bunch of patio furniture she ordered had arrived (split the cost, no gifts right now and she doesn't want gifts, but nor do I want her just paying for all the new stuff for "her" house). I took all the boxes to the backyard, but stopped there. Normally I would have dug right into it, getting it all set up, disposing of the boxes. But I just left it stacked up. Later on, she said maybe we could set it up together, and I said I would be happy to help. Trying to be her friend and of course I'm happy to help, but also balancing with my 180 of not just automatically taking care of every tiny thing around the house to win her approval. Obviously didn't win me any points in the past.

Other thing that was frustrating was her career is going SUPER well. I know, first world problems, but we both do very well in our careers. And she has always been great but is really finding her stride recently. Got promoted and her company got acquired so she is telling me about the ridiculous amount of money she's getting, and how she's getting a retention bonus, how proud she is and how she's really achieving her dream of international business. And she's rightly proud of herself, she earned it. But I'm sitting there thinking "what the hell, I don't get ANY credit for being there the last 10 years, being your biggest chearleader, always encouraging you to take that risk, telling you you're going to do amazing on the big presentation...".

But I kept my mouth shut, and my response was basically, "Wow that's incredible. You've worked really hard for a long time for this, it's well-deserved." Am I doing validation right?

[sandi2]

Funny you mention that warming-up though. I have noticed a few times when I felt she was being really critical or unfair and I just let her have it (we're talking 3-4 times in the entire M, the rest of the time I just internalized and built up the emotional wall). Result: a sincere apology and hugs and feeling closer afterward.

You say you keep things bottled up and have resentment. In the meantime, your W sees you being weak b/c you won't stand up to her. Whenever a man lets his W show disrespect for him without calling her out on it......what do you think happens?

[liono]

Doormat.

[Cristy]

Hello liono,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

You are so smart to recognize that your wife should be proud of her professional accomplishments. Validating her in that department is a great plan.

What other 180's have you been doing besides not setting up the patio furniture without her asking?

You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[sandi2]

Well actually, I was thinking on her end. The answer I had in mind is.....She looses more respect for you. In order for a woman to feel in love with her H, she first has to respect him. We don't particularly like it, but that's how we're made.

Over time in a MR, things can happen to break down that level of respect......if it is never addressed. She may have expressed it in a way that you did not understand the source behind it. Being M to a nice-guy type, the chances of continuation of disrespect is pretty large..........if you've not challenged her behavior.

Don't confuse being a good man with the nice-guy syndrome. Women usually want a good man for a H, but we also want a man who will stand up to us and show that he is stronger than we are. That is very important to us, b/c we don't want a man who is weaker than us. We want someone we admire and respect.

There have been some nice-guy types who have left the board, simply b/c they would not even try to take a stronger stand. I hope you won't be one of them. I suspect you have much more strength and self respect than your WW is seeing. Perhaps the way you define strength and how she sees it displayed are not the same.

I think you are wise in knowing what you can control, and what you have no control over. I encourage you to enforce boundaries, b/c you do not have to imitate a doormat by feeling that you have no control under your own roof. It is your decision how you will live and how you will be treated by others.

[liono]

Thanks sandi, that all resonates a lot, she definitely has lost a lot of respect for me that she once had. Finding my strength is going to be a big part of any path to saving our M, and just generally something I realize is a big part of my getting to be a better man.

[liono]

Just got done with MC session. Feeling kind of on top of the world, actually. Counting my successes...

• Therapist complimented me on my ability to "sit and listen" to the hard stuff W was telling me, super impressed by my ability to listen and be "strong" and empathetic. Direct result of DB'ing. Just thinking validation and listening the whole time.
• Main subject was some really "difficult topics" W had not yet shared with me because she was worried about my emotional stability. Basically: she has realized she needs an alpha, not a beta, and since I'm a beta, we are fundamentally incompatible. She was pretty shocked at how I just took it all in and listened and (I guess?) didn't break down into a blubbering mess?
• For my part, re: alpha vs beta, in my head I was like "no SH**". Exactly what I've been working on for the last 2 months. Gives me hope
• W is still hurt, still isn't attracted to me. Fine, understandable. Says she can't imagine even if I turned myself completely around that she would feel the same thing she felt when we courted. But looking for tiny steps: her language throughout the session went from "can't imagine feeling the same" to "have a hard time seeing I would feel the same". It's like going from 100% negative language to 95% negative. Small, but significant to me. Again, for me just focused on validating, "I totally hear you and understand, you can't see attraction for me right now, and therefore it's also impossible for you to see it in the future either"

If you asked her, she probably would still say there's "no way" love could ever return, but of course, I know my path is the same no matter what. GAL, recover from Nice Guy syndrome.

[liono]

Oh, and I'm also trying to keep in mind, that I'm kind of at the 'up' part of the rollercoaster... not getting too ahead of myself here. Encouraged, but keeping it steady..