Being there to help v going dark:balance

[Surfer]

LiM

Thank you. Can you give me an example of the 'big stick'? Clearly don't be a doormat but what examples might you give. That might give me a a guide? Sorry probably sounds a bit silly but transitioning to be 'dark' rather than needy is tricky and I want to fully understand.

Thanks.

[LiM]

Dont over think it. Be gentle, kind and tender in your interactions with the world (and your W). But at the same time, be firm, confident and demand to be treated with respect. Dont let her, or anyone else, run all over you.
DO be dark and turn your sights inwards. Work on Surfer in this time.

[sandi2]

A common theme I see in newcomer LBH'S is their urgency to talk to his W. Apparently, it is very difficult for him to let go of thinking they will overcome this problem by continuing communication and getting closer to each other.

In cases where the H has a wayward wife, I believe there needs to be a space created by the H. He basically steps away from any opportunities to be around her. That means no more family togetherness, family events and celebrations together. The purpose behind all of this is two fold. One, it gives him a period to wiene himself from any co-dependency he may have. It gives him time to focus on himself and how he wants to reinvent himself to be the man he wants to be, instead of focusing on her and trying to be a wife pleaser. Two, it gives her a little picture of what life without him could be. It cuts out a lot of cake eating. She wants to feel freedom, and this space gives her freedom from his presence.

Personally, I do not agree with the H going to his in-laws when the family members (and especially the W) will be there. This is her family, not his. She will feel very resentful toward him "intruding". Overall, in her opinion, he appears to be trying to score brownie points from her family. Although the H may have close ties with her family, he should refrain from showing up at a gathering where she is sure to be there. And frankly, I don't think he should be going to her parents home while he is giving her this space. If they want to see him, they can meet somewhere else. It's hard to explain, but it is a sensitive area for the W, and I believe it can be a stumbling block to reconciliation.

Newcomers have a desire to prove and "show" more love to the wayward wife. She doesn't want it. The more he tries to show her love.......the more distance he causes. He needs to regroup and realize the communication and show of love comes in a different package than he ever dreamed. He shows tough love. He communicates through actions.

Determine your boundaries. Determine what action you will take if those boundaries broken.

How can her "power" be disabled? When it no longer works for her. When she doesn't get what she wants by throwing a fit.

The WW is very manipulative, and although she doesn't want her H or the M.........she still wants to know what he's doing and who he is doing it with, and she still wants to dictate what he needs to do with the kids. She may even plan doctor's visits, school events, etc., on her H's time with the kids. He needs to be the one in charge of his time with the kids...........not her.

I am not in favor of sending photos of the kids while they are with daddy. This may sound cold, but it is a link of dependency that needs to be broken. Couples lived for centuries without instant photos throughout the day. To be blunt, this is reality of S & D. It is not to punish, but to give an illustration of what it will be if the W carries through to a D. But, this is JMHO.

Have to stop here, but I'll be back.

[Surfer]

LiM,

I am tempted to follow your advice and have the kids until we all have a routine sorted. It's early days. I have been told I could go to the weekend family thing with the kids. Unfortunately, however the WAW is wanting to go off with her friends for a weekend break in Portugal out Friday and Back Sunday. TBH its this that is really messing with my head. I feel I am supporting her and helping her have fun in a situation that feels dire for me and the kids. If I don't say yes it looks bad as I have planned something and why cant she (so I am told) but we didn't have anything arranged. Oh dear. What a mess. In fairness it feels like a big deal right now, but is it really.......???? I am worried for the kids also as they may feel a bit deserted by their Mum.......I can say no but feel I should have the kids. Any thoughts......?

[LiM]

It MIGHT be enabling her a little but like you said, its early days. Focus on your kids. Dont worry about her right now. When she gets back, get a schedule in place and make her stick to it. Get your kids for the weekend and just love them to death.

[Surfer]

When my WAW is upset should I ask her why? It is often genuine upset. Or. Should I wait for her to talk then validate?

[Surfer]

LiM. Legend. Thank you. It's weird that I need so much assurance. I am usually so determined and focused in what I think and fell. Very much appreciated.

[Surfer]

Plan sorted. I told the WAW that I understood and would change my plans (which were sketchy in any event). I can always catch up with friends during the week. Kids have to come first and the family event and fun day with lots of cuddles and fun will work. I still don't like the WAW going away with her friends - as they have not been the best influences historical but I will have to work on putting that out of my mind and being the best dad and best version of me.

[doodler]

When my WAW is upset should I ask her why? It is often genuine upset. Or. Should I wait for her to talk then validate?

Surfer,

The WW is perpetually upset about something.

As an example, throughout our marriage, I'd always put the toilet seat down because I was being respectful of my wife. (Long ago I had a GF that hated seeing the toilet seat up so that started the tradition.) One day I forgot to put the toilet seat down. That upset my wife. She told me that I was purposely trying to make her mad. When I told her I didn't do it on purpose she retorted that it was my subconscious trying to get back at her. Huh? There was no convincing her that it was meaningless.

That was me several months ago. Today I'd handle it differently. I'd tell her my wanker grew and I was tired of it resting on the toilet seat so I'm leaving it up from now on. And that would be that.

[GordonG]

Surfer,

My mind set with dealing with a WW is like playing No-limit Texas Hold'em.... Currently, you have the short stack and your hole cards are at 2,3 off suit.... you gotta go 'all-in' if you want any chance of winning at the table. Your instincts tell you to be cautious, play the odds but you can't, you're already at a disadvantage. Sure you can lose it all but if you don't 'play' big, but she will slowly suck you dry! Is it a long shot for sure but its probably your only shot.

I hope the poker analogy was helpful to you or someone reading this thread. You gotta let go and take a chance or you will never know what could have been.