Being there to help v going dark:balance

[betterm]

Thank you doodler and betterm.
but I am sure long term not talking can't be good can it?
Of course if communication never becomes better - might as well stay detached?

Hmmmm...have you read the thread on detachment? That might be a good place to start.

And this too...
---
Right now you need to not worry about "what ifs" or "unpredictable outcomes". There is a reason this site exists, and it didn't just pop up overnight on a whim. I know it's hard (We've all been there, and still are), but you need to quit playing through scenarios of the unknown, and focus on the homework. Have you read Sandi's post(s) about WW and LBS? don't just read the first post, the entire thread is littered with useful, detailed information.

[Surfer]

Thank you.

[sandi2]

"Being there to help v going dark:balance".......is a problem many LBH's are facing. In fact, finding balance in anything seems to be very difficult.

Were you completely blindsided when your W took the kids and left? Unless I missed it, I didn't see the reason for her up and walking away. Has she given one?

Has she had to suffer any kind of bad treatment that would merit breaking up the M?

We need more information about your marital history. Which of you were the one who was more in charge of things? Let me rephrase that question and ask you which one wore the pants in the relationship?

How would you describe your W? Is she bossy, shy, petted, sad, outgoing, withdrawn, critical, forgiving, softly spoken, raises her voice often, cowed down, gracious, a bully, sweet, sarcastic, etc.

Which one is the pleaser? Do you find yourself walking on eggshells, anticipating her mood swings, jumping when she says frog, and avoiding any type or confrontation? Or, would you have to say your wife is the one to fit this description, instead of you?

When you titled this thread, what type of being there to "help" did you have in mind?

[Surfer]

Sandi. Thanks for the note. I spent much of last night reading about your sitch. It feels like such a privilege to start hearing from you. You provide amazing insight.

In terms of me/us. I imagine if you think back to you - she was is pretty much like you. I will give you detailed history when I get some time and you will know more but if you imagine a lot of you, not all through, you won't be far off.

I was historically more dominant. Not oppressively, so I felt, always been fair and laid back book took no BS. Apparently I always criticised and nothing was ever good enough though - not sure I buy this though and neither do others that know me.

I was guilty of not talking enough also at times after work - when she needed to when I came home. Just wanted 30 mins to unwind first. Can't give you the full picture here but I am sure you can broadly see.

Excellent job and very, very well paid, profession in property and hard work stressful, legal, and adversarial. Still have the same - for now.

When the sitch. changed - WAW had an emotional affair, possibly full EA but she says not and I tend to agree. I did catch her out on something I can write more later.

When the 'A' happened and I found out I went into chasing and eggshell mode to her raging critical role. She has always been critical though - sometimes critical fairly but she went into overdrive, can't do anything right from stacking the dishwasher to washing up, ironing the kids clothes etc. Probably all those things I started to do to compensate. The wrong things. In the end I just stopped doing those things under pressure of argue,net avoidance and not waking the kids with her shouting.

Shouting became her power.

Blindsided ? Not completely. She had been talking about if for a while - A was 2 years ago. I had money locked down except one account in her name. She found it and withdrew a lot of money and ran. She was basically cracking under the pressure I think. She still is when I see her. I am pretty cool with it in fairness. Wasn't always but am getting there - still down days but okay.

Help with learning to communicate with her and get the monster in her gone for good even if that means being apart while distancing (short to long term) yet being there for the kids. I need to set boundaries, sort custody, potentially property (I am in the family home).

Still see her and her family and she is starting to be more genial. I don't think there is another man on the scene at all (unless it's very late night texts etc) can't see it though. Could be. I will see her in an hour as she drops the kids for the school run - but I won't engage, she will try a little. I will the. Cuddle the kids and take them to school, I will make them laugh and help them to be happy and secure. They are a little shaken but okay. I can still really make them laught lots.

She will pop round for D8 piano practice later. I have the piano here. I plan on being around but I will work from my office. - which is in the garden. That way I can se the kids and not engage. Unless you think just be out full stop? Not sure on this.

Sorry it's all a bit rambled. I will try and get a history down to the present days do will be really interested in your input as the WAW mindset is totally alien to the LBH as you know and it only takes understanding to help with planning and implementing the right strategy as you know.

Thank you again. I am so, so grateful for you help and any insight. Sorry if this is rambling and unstructured.

[Surfer]

I would appreciate any advice - particularly from you Sandi. I have a little “emergency situation”, nothing major but I’m not sure how to handle this as its all early days still.

WAW walked 10 days ago with D8 and S6. She dropped the kids to me for the school run this morning so she could get to work. She didn’t look to be “stressed and not coping” and was dressed nicely and was very polite. She acted in a happy and convivial way rather than being her usual “angry frustrated and lost” (I don’t know whether this ‘down’ behaviour is real or fake BTW - when ‘down’ she will tend to be looking for something to complain about or needle over). Today she was ‘up’/happy. She did so in some recommendations (rather than complaints – in terms of not giving the kids sugary breakfast etc) which were made in a nice way and were fair, so I just acknowledged and validated these. However she then shared something jovial and smiled which is very unusual (basically the kids had mentioned my disaster lasagne). I mirrored back with kind friendly and smiley conversation laughing at my 2 star catering! It was the first time, in a long time, that we shared good humour and company. However, I don’t trust it is real at all – I have been ‘manipulated’ in the past and now I need to open my eyes. Here’s why, after this friendly exchange my wife dropped in “are you around later, I need to talk to you about something?”. “Something has come up at the weekend and I thought you might want the kids”.

It’s early days we have not sorted out custody formally yet. She wants me to have every other weekend and one day a week and I want more than this. However, we need to sort this out still and this will be done in due course – so let’s not get bogged down with that.

In the meantime I have a dilemma. Given her demeanour just now, it is most likely that she is being sweet to me so she can get something that she wants. I don’t mind this so much, but I believe that she is probably wanting to go out with the same “loose morals girlfriends” that covered up her A and were always trying to take away holiday or go out and drink lots whilst dressed up as Police Officers, Pocahontas etc. – they go to different weekender events, bars and generally act like teenagers rather than late 30s, early 40s mothers of two etc . Most of them lie to their husbands also (seen evidence). Don’t get me wrong I’m not against my wife seeing girlfriends to have fun (although I don’t like this set) but not when it comes at the expense of her family, family time and her children – they come first in my book.

If not, this she may have a date??? Who knows.

I’m presuming (I don’t know) that I will be advised that we can’t spend time together as a family on Saturday (at a family event that she won’t want me to go to because it’s uncomfortable yet her family will be more than happy to see me) but I can have the children so that she can go out with her “loosely modelled” girlfriends or on a date say.
How do I handle this? I’m doing the best with the children and they are coping okay. However, I don’t want to end up as a child carer, financial support, plan B, gay friend (no offense) etc, I am her husband, she should be living in our house, sleeping in our bed and being a wife and mother. Her role is not that of a “loosely modelled” WAW.

In short should I have plans and not be available? If I do she will probably just palm the kids off onto her parents. Any advice would be gratefully received.

[EDF]

I'm still slogging through this DB process myself, but wanted to add what thoughts I could in case others weren't able to give feedback before you find yourself needing to handle things.

As you mentioned, you're very likely correct that W was nice because she wanted something. She wants to cake eat... to have the kids when she wants them and to pawn them off to you whenever she wants to live the single life.

The general rule of thumb is to not enable the W in her behaviors, but it gets a little fuzzier when kids are involved. As long as the kids are safe/not being neglected, my recollection is most would recommend you not being available this weekend and letting her figure out her kid-sitting solution. Keep it upbeat/positive when you deliver the news, but yea unfortunately you already have plans. (Be aware that she may get nasty and try to demean your adequacy as father to try and browbeat you into caving. Stay confident.)

Sure, she may just dump the kids to her parents, but that's not a bad thing. She is not offering you the kids to be nice, she is offering them to you because she views it as her least-uncomfortable solution.

Regarding the family party situation, I would seriously consider going even if she asks you not to, since it sounds like something you individually would still be invited to/welcome at. All of the DB behaviors: detaching, keeping it light & breezy, GAL, etc can also be applied in the context of a social get-together, and with the W walking away it's no longer your job to contort yourself to help her avoid uncomfortable situations. Avoid orbiting her and focus on enjoying the quality time with the kids and the other guests and being the best Surfer you can be.

[Surfer]

Thank you so much. Re: the family party - it might create an atmosphere with some if I go........it is her family after all......will it not just make matters worse? Previously she has created a storm and our S6 sees it as arguing and begs me to go away or home. Alternatively she storms off and makes a scene saying she can't enjoy or get any time etc. Also, are we. It supposed to be getting along....mmmm???? I totally understand but am a bit nervous about that one. It's also a fund raiser for her niece that died tragically age 14. Therefore creating a scene at this event will be bad. I will look like I have been dancing naked on graves or if not it could be twisted that way and defiantly would be.

Thoughts appreciated ....

[MoveFrwd]

Don’t get me wrong I’m not against my wife seeing girlfriends to have fun (although I don’t like this set) but not when it comes at the expense of her family, family time and her children – they come first in my book.

Then why dont you have a custody schedule arranged yet?

Looking after your kids shouldnt be a favor she is asking for. Once you have a schedule then your questions dont matter anymore. If she wants to go out when it's her turn, then she can find some way to make it work. If she wants to go out while you have them, then so be it.

[LiM]

Surfer,

Sorry you are here brother. I don't have much time right now but i just wanted to jot down a few quick notes.

Detachment is not the same thing as not talking to your W. Detachment is emotional in nature. It doesn't mean being cold, cruel or distant. Its about not letting someone elses behavior affect your emotional state.

You mentioned what your W "should" be doing. You need to drop that word from your vocabulary because it means that you are not detached and you are not putting your focus on YOU which is where it needs to be right now. You need to be completely unconcerned with what she "should" be doing.

Do not contact your W to ask how the kids are doing. The only reason to contact her (and really, you should be waiting for her to contact YOU unless it is an absolute necessity) is if it is an emergency or you need to discuss some last minute kid schedule stuff. But Ideally, you are waiting for her to contact you. I know you want to know how your kids are doing but you can find out when you see them next and it sounds like you see them all the time.
Get on a schedule with them as quickly as you can and try to stick with it. I had a schedule with my W but I wasn't too strict with it if varying from it meant that it was good for the kids. My kids stayed with me when I kicked my W out of the house. I take them to school every day and my W picks them up every day. 2 days a week, she was supposed to take them to her house for the afternoon/evening but I didn't care if they wanted to go a 3rd day. I didn't care if the kids wanted to stay the night at her house on "my" weekend. So long as I didn't feel my W was taking advantage and it was the kids wanting to alter the schedule a little, I didn't have a problem.
Put your kids first. Become a killer dad. Be ridiculously awesome. But don't be a doormat either. Adopt the persona of a gentle giant. Talk softly but carry a big stick. Be tender in all your interactions (even W your wife). You don't have to be mean to be detached.

As for this weekend of hers, take the kids. Plan something awesome. Send them back to her with stories of the freaking fantastic time that you all had together (without her). Make those kids BEAM with joy. Show her what she missed. Dont worry about what she may or may not be doing.

Sorry, that ended up being more than just a few notes.

[Surfer]

Thanks darkness. She was living at home with the kids 10 days ago. Just trying to sort the schedule. Great advice. Thank you.