Im having a relaxing morning sitting on my front deck drinking coffee and looking at the mountain. And pondering. So one more question, Zues. In my post office scenario, both parties were single. Is it still not ok? Because maybe one of them might get into a relationship some day and then you'd have to end it? I get your point about each half of a married couple being vigilant against inappropriate relationships with the opposite sex. Couldn't agree more, wish mr p had held that view. But what if you are single? Not every friendship has to lead to romance. Some do, most don't. I hang out with single guys all the time, they are an important part of my friend group. Is that still a bad thing in your viewpoint, Zues?
RD, I think we cross posted, didn't see yours until I had already posted mine. Let me ponder a little more, have some more coffee, put a chopstick in this mass of blonde hair, it's getting hot outside. And you always make me laugh.
Clearly there are a lot of different views here, and that's ok. I'm not debating to win or be right, but I'll respond since I'm being asked.
In my case having no female friends doesn't mean I see females as sexual objects only. It means that I only have room in my life for one woman. That is all. I have no desire to be close or connected with any other women outside of the one I am committed to.
To me being single doesn't change much. I guess I look at deep emotional connections with opposite gender as off limits in a marriage, the same as sexual activity. So asking if it's ok for a single person to have a bunch of opposite gender friends, hey, it's up to them. No one is betraying any trust. But to me that would be the same if a single person wanted to sleep around a lot for a few years. They aren't betraying any trust, it's just not what I would choose to do. The same way I tried to save myself for my woman physically, I do the same emotionally. Other people can do what they want, just not for me.
Would that be a 'deal breaker' in a relationship? This is such a hard question because it's hard for me to picture another relationship with a woman at all. It probably wouldn't be a deal breaker initially because I wouldn't leave a woman for spending time with another guy. But I would not feel safe and I don't know that I could be emotionally intimate anymore, and I could see that putting the marriage in a bad spot, one that my partner would probably leave at some point, at which point my concerns about the opposite gender would appear justified. But if a woman chose other men over me I would be happy to wish her well.
Again, we're talking about friends, not friendly. If there are men in a group of people she's out with, fine. But if she's spending 1:1 time with another man on a recurring basis, that would be an issue.
As for the bit about temptation being everywhere, so staying off FB being pointless, I don't agree with that. I think there are things you can do to safeguard your marriage, and there are things you can do that give opportunity for temptation to arise. Clearly you can't take a cheater and just restrict their internet access and get them to toe the line, and I can appreciate the fact that some people will never cheat no matter what, as I am in that category. But despite my conviction, I wouldn't want to go have a beer in an attractive woman's hotel room when she had shown interest in me...being faithful is one thing, but I wouldn't want to put myself in that spot at all. That's how I see private facebook message exchanges with opposite gender friends.
Maybe this all sounds extreme when I write it, but it seems to me common sense, and I know I'm not unique in this regard. My best friend is the same way. It is nothing we've ever talked about, it's just clear. He is a married man, his friends are guys, his wife is his woman. It doesn't seem restrictive at all. In fact, I think this is pretty common among my friends that are married.
I want to be clear I'm not judging anyone that has opposite gender "F"riends. There are a lot of ways to live. For me, I have only a very, very few select group of friends. 1 best friend. And 5-10 friends I remain pretty close with and keep in touch over the years. I think I'm pretty sensitive, and while I'm clearly not a closed person, I don't open my heart up to people unless I feel safe, and can tell they are sensitive as well so I can trust them to handle me as gently as I try to handle those around me.
It's very possible I'm too sensitive, and that I have closed myself off to the entire world. But I like who I am, I have some people that get me and appreciate me, and right or wrong it is the path I seem to be drawn to.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues, agree that it's fine for us to all have different perspectives, that's what makes it an interesting conversation. So, if you as a single man, won't have a friendship with a single woman, whether online or in person, what if you miss the woman who gets and appreciates you?
Zues, I have possibly not picked up on the finer points of your "friends" v "Friends". I wholeheartedly agree there can be inappropriate emotional relationships between a man and a woman. But I'm missing something here.
I, a single woman, go out with groups of friends that include single men. Seems ok by you. I, a single woman, sometimes text those friends in a conversational tone. I do not share my innermost secrets with any of them. Ok or not ok by Zues rules? I get fuzzy here. Not ok because of the risk it might turn emotional? And if that's true, why not, we are both single. Doesn't mean either one of us sleeps around, it's a text. This is where I don't quite understand the inappropriateness. Can you explain?
Hey Sunny. Hope the weather is beautiful on your porch and the coffee is rich.
It's all on a spectrum. You say 'it's a text', and that is true. A text is just a text. Multiple texts daily throughout the day and night, or texts joking that are a little too personal are another.
Where's the line? That seems to be the question you are asking.
For me, I don't want to know where the line is. I have no desire to find out what the line is, because I'd prefer to be nowhere close to it.
It's like my self-test for alcoholism, or other addictions. How do you know when you have a problem? My answer has always been "when you have to ask yourself". I drink 1-3 beers 2-4 times annually, and then it's spaced out over time. There is no doubt in my mind I'm not an alcoholic. If I drank 1-2 beers a night 5-6 days a week, and liked to get loose every weekend, but didn't black out, or have 'consequences', maybe I'm across the line, maybe not, but in my mind once I start having to wonder I've gone too far.
So my answer would be if your relationships with your male acquaintances are laid back, friendly, and they are so far from anything serious, emotional, or personal that the idea seems absurd...great, no issues. If you shoot someone a text to see if they're bringing something to a get together, or you send them a funny picture that reminds you of a conversation you had at the last social event you saw them at, fine, no worries. If you have an ongoing conversation with them (like the one we're having on this forum) and you're sharing that conversation with your spouse, I don't see the harm. This is about as far as I think it should go so it doesn't come anywhere near the line.
As for what you do when you're single, I don't have strong opinions, but for me I would personally stay away from that line and only get closer if I thought we were both exploring relationship opportunity.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I've had two serious relationships. Both ended with my partner cheating on me with a guy friend. I think that could skew me.
Also, neither relationship was very good. It's hard to imagine a good relationship, where I felt I was a priority to my partner. If the relationship was strong I think I'd feel much more at ease in general.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I guess what I'm really balking at is the idea that any of us should close ourselves off for the sake of what might happen. I have some guy friends that I can have wonderful intellectual conversations with, and it's always going to end there. I have MyNica who is probably going to break my heart and I wouldn't trade it away, he's made my life so much richer. And I wouldn't want to miss out on the next love of my life because I had rules in place that prevented me from doing so.
Thanks for being patient with me Zues, I always appreciate your opinion and your perspective.
I have found with my male contacts that there are friends who will always be friends. Even if on a dessert island friends.
These are gay male friends, older and younger men in my life, work colleagues, husband's brothers cousins, bor friends and ex of my friends, men with facial hair, men with fat tums, clients, husband's of.......
I keep my boobs in my pants (if that was anatomically possible!).
There is this assumption that somehow men or women are untrustworthy. I agree waywards like my XWH are untrustworthy and that's not the majority of us.
Otherwise we gals would leap on men at random.
I would have to say in my long life there have been offers, but really? Why would one destroy an M for a tryst?
Not worth it.
My male friends are very important to me, irreplaceable. My female friends are important to me too.
And there is no potential R when friendship is important.
Besides most men aren't Liam Niesen.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
