Chapter 2, She moved out - I win! I think

[bigybiz]

PacLove:

You are so right. I did not even think about it like that. Yes, S15 did stand up to her and say - if you are not part of this home, you can't visit here. Wow. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

It was great for her to hear it from S15. So it was not just me telling her that.

[SH_]

SadHub:

You are so right and I must admit that trying to anticipate what anyone is going to do is a fools game - no matter what the relationship - Spouse, parent, co-worker, etc. All we can do is do what we think is best and stay the course.

HERE IS MY CONFUSION.

When I read DB and DR - in particular the chapters on 180 and LRT the idea of not doing more of the same really resonated with me. I realized that 48 years of bad behaviour/habits, etc is the reason I'm in the boat I'm in.

I loved the idea of doing everything differently and certainly showing my WAW/WW that my GAL is permanent and I'll be OK without her. What I understand from reading those chapters - 100's of times is that doing the opposite/unexpected could break the patterns of the past. If the patterns break the WW/WAW might have a second look. Also, once I have "transformed" myself - I would want,need different things from my spouse.

So I embarked on that journey. My longtime listeners have tracked my GAL and even my WAW/WW has noticed that the man in front of her is not the man she decided to leave months ago.

So this is where I need help - and yes you and the entire community is providing it. When faced with a changing situation - I often fall back on bad behaviour. Thanks to help from you and so many others - I get ideas on how to change myself - hence implement my 180/LRT.

Is that making sense? I need to keep trying different things to see what works and along the way make myself and my kids happy too.

As you all know - I have a host of new skills - cooking, gardening. I don't ask her/rely on her for anything. My kid needs baked goods for the Sunday School bake sale - I did it. My W is an expert baker. We went on without her.

I would have waited and waited and waited to get a motorcycle. Now I have one.

So here I am with a WW/WAW who just moved out, her kids are thriving, they don't want to see her at their home. How do I take this changing situation and continue to change the relationship dynamics? I will stay the course - and thanks for the reminder about trying to anticipate her response and or control her actions. But how do I ramp up my 180/LRT?

bigy,

If I may, you may be asking the wrong question. You indicate that you have read the chapter on the 180 and LR 100's of times. Your actions and energy certainly show that you have focused on this and set an example for all that are following you.
But the part of the same chapter, that I do not see much of in your story is the "Wait and watch". MWD indicates that it can take one month or more for every year married to see any potential.
You are doing and doing and asking for more things to do. One might start to wonder are you just jumping from one thing to another? Is this creating a change in you, or simply keeping you busy? If you do a 180 long enough it becomes a 360 right? Now that is a literal interpretation, but my point is, stick to some of the things you have done for the 180 until they are a permanent part of your being. A lot of what you have done are outward actions and behaviors.
I might suggest that you are at a point where a focus on inward parts of you can use some tuning up.
Things like Forgiveness. Selflessness. Love. Respect. Service. Happiness. Confidence. Respect. Kindness. Compassion.
There are actions that we do for these, but the truth in our hearts is key.
For example, I say that I forgive my W for what she is doing. But then I catch my self cursing her name when she does something that bothers me.
I say that I feel sad for the struggles that she is going through. But then I find myself doing something that I know will anger her.
Have I really changed inwardly?

My point is, you may need to start looking inside at this point. Go back and read your posts. Are you really "winning" because the kids take your side? What are you winning?


MWD is very specific the there is no magic bullet when doing the LRT. If I understand now, your W is moved out and that is after all that you have done, correct? I am not trying to say that there is not still chance that she will take notice and become interested, but time is what you have now. See number one of mandatory do's when divorce busting.
I would challenge you to evaluate the things that you are doing and see how they are helping you. Because ultimately as we study DB/DR, once we are at the LRT stage, the process is more about getting us in a good place than saving the MR.


You can not change the relationship dynamics right now. You can only continue to change you. Make that your motto my friend and you will seal the deal and then it is up to her to decide if she is interested in R the MR.

[bigybiz]

SadHub:

You make some excellent points and ask awesome questions.

To answer your last question 1st. What did I win. Well I think if the W does not come back, I'm ready. I have my home full of my kids, I have a renewed faith, a fit body, a whole bunch of new hobbies and habits. I really don't know what she has that's as good as a house full of kids, love, a garden, etc.

So all in all I win - considering Sept - Dec 2015, I was a desperate, needy, little <insert your fav bad word here>.

I guess one issue the online form has we don't get to see each other as an entire picture.

But, to answer your other question - Yes, I'm keeping busy - but I'm taking on more and more. Yes, she has said to me that she notices changes.

So I'm not going from one thing to another. It's more of a new trajectory. It's a brand new me.

Yes, the internal things are the hardest. As I've learned most of those start with an action:

Forgiveness is a decision - we will still slip - but we made the decision to forgive.

Love is a commitment (not that of 20 year old's where passion, etc is the driving factor).

ON and ON.

Once we have decided to make these changes - the hard part comes. It's far easier to carry a grudge than to forgive.

Here, you are so right. I do think that for these internal facets,characteristics. - we need to make consistent moves forward and maybe the WW/WAW will see real change - in 20 months.

I love having kids, etc to myself. She walked away from this. But I have a heart that is ready for to come back.

Until then, I'm on a new trajectory. But some habits are hard to kick. So that's why I ask for help.

[Melo]

I think you have done a great job Biz. I think you have done yourself justice in caring enough about yourself to invest this much time and effort into things that will better you. I think that one of the tangential benefits will be your kids learning to do the same when faced with adversity. Your commitment to your M and at the same time your courage to stand up for yourself are very inspiring to me personally Biz, I hope to be walking in your footsteps soon brother.

[bigybiz]

Melo: Thanks for your kind words of support. I feel great with all that I've accomplished etc recently. I really need to remember that is because of God and not because of anything I've done.

Everyone here is right. I may have gotten this far by putting my GAL into full gear. Yes and a big part of it has been to "show her". As you've heard me drone on and on. For me it does not matter that the motivations may not be ideal - as I'm thrilled with the results.

What's next is to continue on the same path - but at this point what she may think or feel is slowly becoming less and less important.

Keep praying for me.

[bigybiz]

OK everyone here is today's problem. She drops of S10 (late of course). She tells me she is not happy. She says, I have nothing where I am, everything is here and I'm not welcome in this house.

How do I validate her?

I'm dying to say - you left, these are the consequences. I know that is not the right thing to do.

What is the right way to validate and support?

e.g. I see that your current situation is not ideal. It must be awful>......

Let me know some ideas on how to deal with her statements?

[EDF]

My WW says some things that are really challenging to validate too; here are some of the responses I've used (mostly cribbed from various sources):

"I hear you."
"That must be so frustrating."
"I hear what you're saying. It's tough for me to hear, and I'm not sure how to respond, but I do hear you."
"That is an interesting perspective."
"I can see that you are really upset."

As I recall the DR book had a little example about a person who actually used showing a little anger as a 180... kinda giving the wife a 2x4/truth dart. I've been very tempted to do that with some of the things my WW has said, but it seems so anathema to DBing that I haven't risked it.

[bigybiz]

EDF:

I really like:

"I hear what you're saying. It's tough for me to hear, and I'm not sure how to respond, but I do hear you."

That really does nail it for me i.e. make it sincere. Let's see if it comes up again and I'll try and use it.

It's sort of like the kids voted her off the island. She can't be made at them - because its a response to her actions.

Very hard to validate because for the first time it's not about me or us. It's about her and the kids.

[bigybiz]

Well, I just blew it.

I made a mistake and let it fester and now it blew up. She is mad and I'm sure I've knocked back any progress.

Oh well, I'll dust myself off.

I'll just think about what's best for me and my family. I'll try and let go. Need to figure out the fine line between letting go and not giving up.

[Zues126]

don't sweat it big, it happens.

Personally I never believed in 'not giving up'. I think hope equates to attachment. I think giving up is absolutely the right answer.

Here's my question- if you "gave up", what would you DO differently?

Would you stop working on yourself? In that case you'd be just doing this to win her back.
Would you burn bridges, tell her off, have a rebound affair? In that case, might as well go ahead because I don't think the marriage can be saved anyway.

But say knowing 100% your M couldn't be saved, and having given up...would you instead try to find the healthiest way possible to grieve? Would you try to grow from the experience? To act maturely in a hard situation for the benefit of your children? To live in a way that you could look back on in 5 and 10 years and not regret?

As far as I am concerned, your behavior shouldn't differ whether you give up or not. So go ahead and give up. Don't worry about your love cooling off. That's actually part of detachment. Emotions follow behavior, so if in the future she wanted to R, you could figure out if you wanted to at that point, and if you did feelings could be reborn. But that is a much better approach than constantly recalculating the % chance she will come back, and recalculating how you feel about that idea, and how it would play out, and whether or not it would be possible to rekindle those feelings. Just let it go, give up, and take care of yourself.

To me that is dropping the rope, detaching, and moving forward.