Chapter 2, She moved out - I win! I think

[Zues126]

Zues126:

I narrowed it down to a few things I miss the most.

- Companionship - watching TV, Drinking Tea and Coffee, etc
- Touch - hugs, kisses, etc
- Loss of identity - being a husband for 20+ years is a hard thing to view as over

So ideas on how to replace them would be great. I'm committed to not dating, etc. I know that would be a mistake.

In regards to plans tomorrow night I would remain flexible and not let her lack of communication or the way she's handled the situation rattle you. This is a short term, potentially one time issue. Don't die on this hill.

What I would recommend is sending her an email stating that you feel it would be in everyone's best interest to have scheduled parental time. That way you could both plan around it, and it would help the kids to have some type of predictable structure so they knew where they'd be, when they'd have free time, and feel reassured that both parents loved them and would be in their lives. I'd then ask if she has ideas on what that could look like for now. I'd emphasize that this could be an interim informal agreement that could be revisited as things evolve, and that you remain committed to being flexible so they could have a good relationship with her and you could work cooperatively to minimize the strain on either of you. Then I'd sit back and see how she responded. The key would be doing something collaboratively if possible, although at some point you'd have to do what you do with or without her blessing. But that's a good place to start.

As for the three things you mentioned, I can only tell you how I'm meeting those needs. Disclaimer, it isn't an easy hole to fill and takes time. That's why so many people medicate, the need to fill the hole is so strong and the easiest way to fill it is with garbage like rebounds, alcohol, etc. If you can avoid doing that you'll allow yourself to naturally fill it with healthier things that represent the best self you want to be.

For companionship I have a best friend that I am very close with. We leave each other voice mails throughout the day, and talk probably 30-60 minutes a day. He's married with kids, I'm single with kids. But he's a friend that is part of my daily life, that I can share the stupid little things that make me laugh or get me frustrated, etc.

For physical touch, well, it's limited I'll admit. I do the massage thing now and then. I have kids that I hug goodnight, and we wrestle around sometimes or watch movies together. Definitely no adult interaction, but that wasn't much different than my marriage anyways...

Identity...well, I am a father, an employee, a competitor, and I continue to strive to do my best at all of those three. But I've also gained a lot by participating in these forums. I've averaged about an hour a day for coming up on two years now, and I've gained a lot by being part of this community. I am proud of being a man that stood by my marriage and that protests the cultural acceptance of divorce and infidelity. That is now a big part of who I am. I understand I can't change the world and have to accept how it is and be appreciative for what I have, but I still get to do what I can within my sphere of influence to cast my vote for marriage.

All I've got for now. Keep your nose clean and live so you can look proudly in the mirror at night and you'll be fine. It is difficult and it does take time, but at least you can sleep easy knowing you're on a road that goes where you want. Keep posting and take care.

[bigybiz]

Urgg:

First she says she is not wanting to participate in the family counselling. Now she says wants to. Help, Help, Help.

Is this a game she is playing? Is it part of the loss that she may be feeling since she moved out.

I know this is a long way from detaching but cut me some slack people.

I go to the trouble of setting this up. She tells me that she won't participate and that a Dr she saw says she should not.

She moves out - She tells me know that the boys want her there. When I asked them - They told there mother that the Dr said it would be better if she attended.

Is this a good thing? a bad thing?

BTW - she hates the Dr we are seeing. He is the Dr we went to a few MC sessions with. She did not like it that he told her that our marital problems were her fault too.

Ok - Don't believe anything she says and only 1/2 of what she does.

Help - input please please.

[J5K]

Bigybiz

Make the plan communicate to her. If she shows up great. If not do the MC on your own.

I am on the Rollercoaster all week. Hope your switch does not get on my ride.

[bigybiz]

Wow - what an evening:

W shows up at the family counselling despite the fact she does not like the Dr and she was told by another Dr not to attend. She says our boys told her to come - so she came.

During the session - S15 tells all of us, that mum should not get to visit at the family home. The boys should visit at her place - remember all she has is a room in house, sharing kitchen, etc.

Well she did not like that

Then the Dr tells her that two nights a week and all day Saturday is about half of the available time for visits. She did not like that at all.

I invited her over to talk about other details, $, etc. I told her she should have spoken to me first - remember she did not return my call, etc. I would have caved and let her use the house for visits. I stayed strong and did not offer. Especially since S15 thought since she left - we should visit her at her house. I could not cave on his request.

I did slip and ask her how she was - she told me as to be expected. I'm thinking the reality of the situation is leaching in:

She has her dream job - but 50% of her pay is coming to the home she left

She feels that she should see the kids more than she should - but the Dr felt what she is getting is adequate

She really took it hard when S15 (who is sweet and loyal) told her she should not come over -She actually said in the Dr's office "It seems that I'm not allowed to come over"

She says she misses her kids - but I truly think they don't miss her that much.

I'm not sure if this helps me or hurts me. I was careful not to gloat. When she asked me how I was doing, I was a little positive. I did not want to be boastful. I was hoping my actions were speaking more than words. The kids are fed and happy, the house looks better than it has in years, I've got the garden coming together (that was her thing when she lived here). I told her work was very busy. I did not talk about upcoming projects etc.

We have an appointment for our S10 this week. She asked if we could go together - I said yes. Not sure if that is right or wrong - but she asked not me.

Detaching not happening yet - but tonight the reality is creeping in.

Is this the kind of loss MWD talks about that could bring WW/WAW home?

I'll keep on with the GAL - that's easy. The detaching is the next big step.

What should I implement on Thursday when we are driving across town when going to the Dr's appt.

All ideas are welcome. These self inflected wounds could be start of the turning point.

Any ideas on how to keep that going?

[SH_]

bigy

Quite the developments you have going on here.

My advice will sound like a broken record.

Stay the course. Keep your focus forward in your lane.

Think about it like a world class runner. If you start peeking over into the lane next to you to see how the other runner is doing, that is where you lose a step and can be passed in the race.

Stay focused on you and the value of your actions for you and your children. You can not predict her reactions and when you start to try, your actions are no longer genuine.

Another analogy is when dogs sense fear in you. You can act all you want, but the dog still senses the real you.
Same goes here. If you start trying to take action with the intent of getting her to react or not react, she will sense it and then you will lose any ground that is gained.

Play it cool, validate, detach, and be the best you possible.

I know this may not be a specific strategy, but you are in the part of the game, where you need to apply the things you have been taught through DBing and then be who you are. You must be the most genuine "you" that there is. Happy, confident, loving, respectful, kind, etc. These are not things that can be strategized for. This are things that need to be genuinely part of who you are.

I am pulling for you. You know I admire what you have done so far, and I am praying for the best possible outcome for you.

[bigybiz]

SadHub:

You are so right and I must admit that trying to anticipate what anyone is going to do is a fools game - no matter what the relationship - Spouse, parent, co-worker, etc. All we can do is do what we think is best and stay the course.

HERE IS MY CONFUSION.

When I read DB and DR - in particular the chapters on 180 and LRT the idea of not doing more of the same really resonated with me. I realized that 48 years of bad behaviour/habits, etc is the reason I'm in the boat I'm in.

I loved the idea of doing everything differently and certainly showing my WAW/WW that my GAL is permanent and I'll be OK without her. What I understand from reading those chapters - 100's of times is that doing the opposite/unexpected could break the patterns of the past. If the patterns break the WW/WAW might have a second look. Also, once I have "transformed" myself - I would want,need different things from my spouse.

So I embarked on that journey. My longtime listeners have tracked my GAL and even my WAW/WW has noticed that the man in front of her is not the man she decided to leave months ago.

So this is where I need help - and yes you and the entire community is providing it. When faced with a changing situation - I often fall back on bad behaviour. Thanks to help from you and so many others - I get ideas on how to change myself - hence implement my 180/LRT.

Is that making sense? I need to keep trying different things to see what works and along the way make myself and my kids happy too.

As you all know - I have a host of new skills - cooking, gardening. I don't ask her/rely on her for anything. My kid needs baked goods for the Sunday School bake sale - I did it. My W is an expert baker. We went on without her.

I would have waited and waited and waited to get a motorcycle. Now I have one.

So here I am with a WW/WAW who just moved out, her kids are thriving, they don't want to see her at their home. How do I take this changing situation and continue to change the relationship dynamics? I will stay the course - and thanks for the reminder about trying to anticipate her response and or control her actions. But how do I ramp up my 180/LRT?

[J5K]

Bigybiz

Did W ever tell you what she would prefer you changed about yourself? My gave me a list and still wanted a D but if you have a list from W and you can develop a goal for yourself then that is how you can start your list.

[bigybiz]

No - just that everything about me was bad. She did tell me a little about what initially attracted her to me. But, now the only thing she cares about is he work and the people in her online community/industry. She expected me to blindly support her - despite her bad behaviour etc.

I've been moving ahead on one of the biggest pieces of info from my DB coach - don't believe anything she says and only half of what she does.

I truly do believe she is in a crisis. It's just a point of waiting her out and/or seeing if the loss of her kids, home, etc is enough to make her see if that community is worth it.

Like I said - maybe I'm the winner. I have my three kids, in our house and my motorcycle.

[J5K]

I truly do believe she is in a crisis. It's just a point of waiting her out and/or seeing if the loss of her kids, home, etc is enough to make her see if that community is worth it.

Like I said - maybe I'm the winner. I have my three kids, in our house and my motorcycle.

I agree your W has not hit rock bottom. Neither has mine. My STBX was shaken a bit today but MIL enabling keeps her from hitting rock bottom so not sure any WSW/WW ever gets there.

[PacLove]

Bigybiz,

I admire your progress... I particularly admire your kids standing up to my W, something I, nor my D have been able to do - she has visitation at the house and I don't think it's healthy from a DB perspective. In fact last night she even crashed there (with D).

I struggle though with drawing a firm line as she's been very friendly through most of this, and has even validated my right to be "angry" and setup up boundaries like being out of the MBR.

I do agree with you in the crisis scenario, I see it too in my W. I keep hoping for a quick turnaround but this takes time, they need to feel the sense of loss and what they are giving up before they possibly turn around.