WAW,still angry, am I indifferent or detached now?

[OFP]

Disclaimer These are my thoughts today and today only as I reserve the right to change my thoughts as I continue on this journey and attempt to learn and grow along the way. I also mean no disrespect to anyones opinions that may differ or oppose my views as stated. And if the thoughts seem jumbled, incoherent or simply incomprehensible, well, then so be it.

I assume you read what I wrote in Zephyr's thread? Journaling isn't about writing what you want other people to hear. It's not about saying what you want other people to think of you. Write what you truly think, and don't filter it.

So now to my musing.
Do I want to be the person that she was initially attracted to? Should I not be a different person? One that has gown? Progressed? Changed for the better? Made mistakes, and learned form them? Evolved for the better?

Neither reverting to past (less mature) behaviors or pretending to be someone you are not, to win her over, sounds like a step in the right direction, IMHO. Are you a "better" person now? I would assume yes. Why would she not only accept that, but admire it? Unless she feels inside that you have grown and she has not? Does she resent you for it, or jealous of it? I would guess jealous! Which aligns with why she has a problem with you doing things with your kids, shouldn't she be happy that you are finding things to do with your D's? She is likely jealous of your relationship with them. So, she reacts by trying to do more of what she does best, to be immature. To try to "win" the kids over in a way that just doesn't work (being a friend instead of a mother). I feel my xW is doing the same. MIL did the same for my xW after her D. It's a childish response, and unfortunately all you can do is keep being the best role model possible for the kids.

...I find that she may still be to much of that person. I have struggled over the years, as she is very stubborn, and not interested in learning and growth. She is of the belief that people are who people are and they do not change.

Ironic, my xW stated that after BD, she was claiming I was too controlling, and said she didn't believe I could/would change.

Her point seems to be true as I look at her.
I appreciated her for the child like freedom that she would demonstrate in trying to new things. Being carefree. Enjoying the little things. I liked that she was a bit of an outcast, because she did not follow the status quo. She was very family oriented, kind, and happy. She enjoyed the simple things and went with the flow. She never pushed me to be anything except for myself. She was not self righteous, but she had values. She loved kids and I saw she would be a great mother for my children.

So now I look at her and these same qualities have not evolved much and some of them have become toxic over the years in our MR.
Her childlike freedom, is the same as when we met. Just do what ever, and try and fix the consequences later. This created debt for us for half of our marriage, until i wanted to evolve and be responsible. Our health was bad, because she wanted to eat out regularly, and junk food was easier to prepare at home. We both gained a lot of weight and fought health issue due to this. Decisions with her d17 were as a child, and my d17 struggles from issues where she took on the mothers role in our family because WAW would engage in non mother behavior. i did not know this was a thing, but IC shared that there is a term for this in psychology, with me.

Same thoughts here about my xW. When we met, she was extremely immature, and it was a constant battle between us. I think she couldn't keep up so she shut down. My logic and ability to understand frustrated her. I would accept blame on a daily basis, she would never admit blame except in a sarcastic way. Life for us was fun, but some people grow and want to also improve their life instead of just pursuing fun continuously. Some even enjoy working toward a goal. Some people never do grow up.

So many of those things resonate with my story. Are you and I wrong for wanting more? Wanting and expecting is a fine line? Frustration with having continuous childish conversation with someone in their 40's can suck the life right out of you. Having to explain every month that we are out of money, and she continues buying non-necessities, and instead stops paying the bills when the money runs out. Having to explain that diet pills are not the answer when there is NO physical activity and being choked to death by carbs. Having to explain for years that her smoking and having asthma is causing an annual trip to the ER, and then having a Dr. explain the exact same thing to her. The latest was her buying some really expensive vitamins from a coworker at $75 a month, but still no change in diet or activity. I had to explain to her that her smoking through both PG's because she didn't have the will power to quit, meant the kids went through the withdrawals so she didn't have to, wasn't that nice of her?

Your explanation of D17's R with your WAW sounds exactly like the type of parent that creates a codependent child... the child is responsible for trying to figure out how to make the parent happy. I believe I heard the majority of the damage is done by the age of 8. You and D17 can work through that for her benefit moving foward, but trying to protect D5 from it will be the challenge. Possibly ask WAW to attend a coparenting class with you? In the class attempt to bring these issues up? I assume she will immediately bale when any blame gets pointed at her, but may be worth a try.

Back to your evolution as a person.... WAW was likely holding you back. BD not only triggered, but allowed, a steep learning curve to occur for you.

Maybe I started detaching years ago to protect my self, as she did not seem interested in working as partners and progressing in our evolution as people, parents ,and spouses. I hoped that she would see changes and desire to change as well. What happened is resentment and anger took hold instead.

It's a frustrating realization, isn't it? To start off after BD with a crushed self-esteem, thinking you caused the entire problem, only to finally realize later that wasn't the case as all. Hold your head tall, stop blaming yourself, grow at whatever rate you want to grow, but remind yourself that you are lightyears ahead of WAW.

....I guess I'm just trying to point out that maybe this expectation of evolution, which is what you want for yourself, is not fair to place on other people.

The problem I have with this approach... if one partner is trying to be financially smart, the other is wasting money, then what? If one is busy trying to improve life, the other is only worried about the next play activity, then what? Sure, we all need to have fun, but we have responsibilities in life also. At some time we need to stop playing and pay the bills. At some point we need to stop buying and go to work. At some time the kids need to be fed a healthy meal, and not right before bed. If your spouse isn't providing anything to the family, then what? Try to change them, or just file for D?