I don't want to confuse these things. I want to distinguish the difference. There are plenty of nice guys in the world that are great Hs, fathers, and friends. And yes, women should appreciate them and respect them. I am sorry that you guys are in this sitch. But we are referring to more of a condition--perhaps including some mental health conditions (depression, anxiety, social isolation, lack of personal identity) and it is actually devastating and can ultimately ruin relationships. So that is why I am putting it in caps--Nice Guys--which is NOT to be confused with simply being a nice person. We all should want that (kindness) in a partner. However being married to a Nice Guy, is difficult, because what you see, and may see for many years, may not be who he is and you may not know what he is often really thinking and feeling.

What we are referring to is a man that has a deep seeded insecurity, a need to please women and put their needs before his own (co-dependency), and a lack of healthy male activities or relationships. Nice Guys have been raised to value other before themselves. They have been raised to stuff their needs and feelings and just put on a nice face. They have been taught that traditionally masculine activities or qualities are bad and harmful. They often put their partner's needs before their own and ultimately build resentment and sabotage the R: many women lose respect for them and become frustrated that he does not stand up to her (have a back bone) or have his own interests and hobbies (which makes him interesting and attractive).

Like I said, there is an entire book on this (which has been edited out of the title--sorry if I broke the rules, moderators). I know we often want to find similarities and it helps us gain more insight into our own sitch, but I do not think everyone here falls into this category.

That being said, OFP & JimK, I agree that if a woman would rather date a dirtbag than a nice H that is devoted to them, all the more reason to drop the rope and let her go! You deserve better!

-Blu

“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela