Drop the Rope VII

[roist]

Have a second beer for me!!! A long one!

[SH_]

I will say that I am not a very articulate person. I don't stutter when i talk, but do when I think...I jumble crap up and my thought come off as confusing rather that what I want to say.

You and me both brother. You and me both.

But seriously, your posts are not as confusing as you may see them. Or I just know how to fill in the blanks, because my train of thoughts are jumbled like yours as you say.

[Zephyr]

Have a second beer for me!!! A long one!

if it is a lager, than no problems, will definitely do. if you said double IPA or imperial stout, then just one will do me just fine

[OFP]

Ok so I will not hit backspace on this post

And it seems all the more genuine because of it, at least to me. What I've read about journaling, is to let it flow freely, no concerns about grammar errors, etc.

I will say that I am not a very articulate person. I don't stutter when i talk, but do when I think...I jumble crap up and my thought come off as confusing rather that what I want to say.

I hear you. In that same discussion with my brother, I told him that others seem to be able to just flow their thoughts out into words or text, even if they are full of grammar errors. I cannot. I reread, make sure what I wrote is what I really think, etc. So, I think it comes from a place of serious self-doubt, wondering whether my emotions are "real" or "right". Others judging me for them makes me withdraw further. But how to get to the solution? More effort into the text apparently is not the solution.

Why do I feel my thoughts are wrong? Partially because when I say I feel my W is stupid, someone WILL comment on it that my feelings are not correct? No one has validated me and said "yep, I can see why you think she sounds stupid" and "I understand your frustration, that must have been really hard to live with." Also because my parents were very much the type to make sure my thoughts were "correct." I asked my mom a couple weeks ago why she is trying to change me. Her reply was "If I don't tell you what you are doing wrong, how will you ever learn?" It is that exact mentality that made me who I am. I sent her a link a few days ago from psychology today on validating. She says she read it, but I am not expecting major results.

what am i afraid of here...being accepted. dont want to seem wishy washy or indiciaive or weak. here I am not treated as an outcast or a fraud.

Usually anyway. Those that you click with will resonate with you?

even my brothers over the years have cast me aside from time to time because I am not the same as them. I've tried to get into the same activities as them to build something...but it always wore thin.

I haven't been cast aside, my brother and I are fairly close, but I notice he does very little with our immediate family, he has withdrawn because of the behavior of our parents.

I don't want to talk too much about my mother

Why not? Fear she will read it? Fear that you will be judged here for what you say about her? Fear that you will judge yourself? Your feelings are NOT wrong. Your thoughts are NOT wrong. Your words here, IMO, are not wrong no matter what you say. You have my word, "I" will accept you for whatever you say or feel.

But seriously, your posts are not as confusing as you may see them. Or I just know how to fill in the blanks, because my train of thoughts are jumbled like yours as you say.

See Zephyr... reach out and we'll support you. Finally there's someone else in the world that understands?

Side note, I reread what I wrote in this post about 4 times before hitting reply... on the fourth pass I decided to stop "filtering"

[roist]

Just for the record you come across as articulate and knowledgeable when you post!!!! My opinion

[Vanilla]

Zephyr

Some little shift.

I want more from you, to dig deeper. I have been waiting for this exact moment.

It's time for big shift.

Let me just review those little detached shifts.

---------------------------------

Boundaries

You noticed you have few boundaries.

Those you had were trounced over.

You permitted this for the sake of peace.

You think your skill set on arguing is poor, so you can't argue your corner effectively.

You see disagreement as conflict and avoid it.

You tread on eggshells.

So what is the little shift?

You acknowledge it.

------------------------------

FOO

Your mother is a big controlling pain in the ass.

Your father a placator.

You are using passive master techniques (Google Al Turtle).

They aren't working.

You love your mum and dad and it would be easier if you didn't.

You can't discuss it.

It's influence isn't fully understood.

Black hole.

So what is the little shift?

You put it out there after spending two weeks deciding if you should.

(Can't kid a kidder)


------------------------

Affirmation

You require affirmation and have never asked for it.

You still unsure if you are awesome or no.

I am not going to tell you, that's your stuff to know about you.

You have not yet reached Kubler Ross anger.

So what is the little shift?

It's getting closer.

----------------------------------

So let's join the dots..........

I am expecting you to practise on me.

I just treated you in the same way as W and mum.

So boundary violation, in validation and putting you down.

Let me have it. Do not agree with me on things you dislike, tell me I am disrespectful and rude in the above. Explain I have defined you, telling you what you are.

That's because I was all of those things. In the above I did all the things that are diminishing you.

Intentionally, to make my point.

V

[Vanilla]

Now that I have upset you then I will be V the dancing accountant again.

So......

Zephyr I see you are changing. The adult is tackling and protecting your hurt child. I believe that's good.

Which boundaries will help you most?

In answering when others try to define you, what will make you authentically you?

What I think of you and what others think of you is their business. There is little anyone can do to import thoughts to anothers mind. In any case it's temporary. What Zephyr thinks of himself is perfectly fine, Zephyr is perfectly fine just as he is, in my book.
And those are my thoughts about Zephyr.

I want you to know your dad is more responsible than your mum in the FOO. The one that enables and stands by is more culpable than the controlling parent. This is because that amplifies the control, every child can thrive with one healthy parental role model. Your dad seems to have abdicated his role. I would recommend sharing the anger. You were a child this is not your fault in any way. Not at all. Nothing you did caused this and you could never change it.

Just as in CSA the adults who permit the abuse are more responsible than the perpetrator of it. They could stop the abuse immediately. They thus abuse with an abuser, and by ignoring what is in front of their eyes they encourage worse abuses.

It is easy in adulthood to get mad at the obvious target, we can spread that to the whole sitch and learn to manage it. That is lesson learned management.

I ask you Zephyr to forgive yourself for not forgiving yourself.

V

[Zephyr]

v,

I have read and reread all ^^^^ that you posted to me...have not had a chance to reply. I did read up on a couple of the essays at AT's site on PM/M/S rolls in a relationship and am curious about my specific roll in my marriage...it seams so many of the qualities have been shown by both of us from multiple rolls throughout the years, not sure if that is normal or what or if these differences are exhibited for specific parts of the relationship?

Also reread KR stages...it has been a while since I revisited that material so thanks for reminder.

I will reply specifically to your posts either in the AM tomorrow or by my lunch break tomorrow central time zone depending on meetings I have in the morning.

Thank You for all you've done for me.

[Vanilla]

No rush Zephyr

Let your thoughts marinade.

We have lots of time

V

[Zephyr]

I acknowledge the FOO info you have typed. I will discuss with IC and do a more in depth review, I just know that this forum is not the place for an all encompassing history and analysis. your focused info has helped me doing more searching and thinking about it than I ever would have.

[quote=Vanilla
Which boundaries will help you most?

In answering when others try to define you, what will make you authentically you?

[/quote]

I think this summarizes my whole struggle V. What boundaries SHOULD I have that I have not already implemented, that will allow me to be me...that will allow me to freely live the life I want to. we all know why I haven't installed those boundaries yet...weakness.

I have read more and more and more and recognize more every day, those behaviors of others, that I have allowed to dictate my actions, allowed to control me, allowed to diminish me.

even as I have felt much less attached to wife, I am still allowing my desire to be wanted and loved from her to dictate some reactions. there is a change in so far as I do not react to fix her or rush in to help like I once did, or try to make a mends for something that I didn't do, or take offense / react when she is venting about things that went wrong or about others.

The desire to be wanted and loved IS still very strong for me, that I have ACCEPTED less than I should, worse I have allowed poor treatment. Using compassion for her, as an excuse for her...how is that actually helping her or me. it is only enabling her behavior.

why has it seemed like things are 'better' in my house. no more raging at me, or outburst of anger or belittling me like she used to...it is much clearer now, because she doesn't have to. she has found that withholding affection or parsing it out in tiny little bits is waaaaaaay more effective in controlling me.

Ineffective / nonexistent boundaries and holding on too tight...is that all I need to fix?


I hate that I live my life without being able to express emotions because, I am overreacting

I hate that I live my life not being able to share love or express love without some form of rejection

I hate that I feel like my needs are always trivialized, especially when I express them

I hate that I live in a marriage that I am taken for granted

I hate that I am not shown as an equal, that each doing their share is not even a thing.

I hate that when I get a sense that I am being lied to, I have no recourse.

I am typing these things, because once I say it, I can't unsay it.

well that was not the response I was thinking of when I sat down to type. Sorry if it is not the type of response you were looking for from me V. I kinda needed to type it though...so thank you for prompting me

((((Vanilla))))