I just want to clarify that I am not stereotyping men that are nice people. I am simply referring to a type of man that fits into several categories that I have read about. Unfortunately, those categories can lead to depression, low self esteem, and having As and failed Rs. I think the more we can understand why this is happening, and the more these men can identify these patterns in themselves, the sooner they can heal and make better choices for themselves.
Unbowed, ... You have really had me thinking more about this. Although now that I see there is more than one book, I am wondering if we are referring to the same one? Trying not to break board rules and title it here.
You asked what my 180s were that he noticed most. I think it was when I finally learned to DB more consistently--to create space for myself, GAL, and when I was thinking about moving on without him. Just overall detaching and focusing on me and kids. When I got upset and angry, or when I ignored him, it further justified in his mind that he didn't want to be with me. He could further point the finger and blame me for my behavior. When I left him alone and started to plan moving on without him, he then got scared of losing me and started to realize he missed me.
He also had to come to these conclusions himself. He did a lot Unbowed, you mentioned that you are a recovering nice guy and that your W may not be taking well to it, is that correct? Did you start your work after she started to ask for separation or before? Is there any possibility of an A with her? I think each of those things could have a different affect on her, depending on your sitch. I will read up on your thread as well!
-Blu
I want to back Blu on this. She is talking about a coined term "Nice Guy" based on a book. It describes men who seek approval from others for their happiness and spend their life trying to make others (mostly women) happy under the mistaken belief that their needs and desires will be met if they please others.
But even Nice Guys as I've defined act differently. My Nice Guy behavior I believe helped lead to my wife losing respect for me and then ultimately any intimate desire for me. She withdrew all sex and even touching, kissing, and really any sign of love for me, although she did not seek to leave the relationship. Then after a year of MC, I got the "My light has gone out speech."
It was then that I happened to stumble on the book we're talking about, which changed my whole perspective on my part in the relationship. Blu, I am talking about the same book you are. I am working feverishly on fixing my nice guy tendencies. It's super hard after years, and years of habits and conditioning.
I don't believe, however, that being a Nice Guy leads to having As. I have never considered an A, even though I have not had sex with my wife in over a year, and the year before that, it was totally clear that she was not into it at all. Wouldn't let me kiss her or do anything other than quick intercourse.
Obviously Nice Guys do have A's, based on your experiences. Often, however, which has been confirmed by my participation in another forum for Nice Guys, it's the women that lose their desire for their Nice Guy partners that have EAs or PAs.
But, my guess on why Nice Guys have affairs, is that for them, sex is the ultimate sign of approval from a woman, which they seek. So your husbands were probably desperately looking for approval they felt they weren't getting at home. It likely wasn't even a tremendous desire or love for the OW, but the feeling of comfort they get from the approval.
Blu, in my case, there has not been a separation. But, the withdrawal of all emotional and physical affection and intimacy, lack of smiles, complete lack of interest in doing anything nice or thoughtful for me, has brought me to a crisis point. My wife seems willing to live in a roommate situation. I don't think that's a real marriage. It's not just about the sex, its the lack of all intimacy or tenderness. I don't think my W has had a PA, but I think an EA is possible.
It's pretty clear to me that my wife sees me a weak person for which she lacks respect. She has mentioned that all her friends tell her how lucky she is, and she feels guilty because she knows I'm a good person. But she won't make efforts to work on her intimacy issues with me.
With respect to those that are considering whether or not to read the book, I would recommend it. I told my wife I was reading it. She didn't ask to read it. And given the fact that she has taken my people pleasing and devotion to her as weakness, I'm glad she hadn't. Maybe my changes will feel more real if they seem less to her from a book. But if you are in a different position, and are truly committed to working with your man, or even just giving him the gift of insight that may really change his life I'd truly recommend it. It's also very hard for the man to read.
Finally, Blu, could you describe the difference between ignoring him (which made things worse) and leaving him alone (which helped). In my own 180s I struggle with the line between this.
Thank you for all your insights and service on this forum.
