Zephyr, I'll keep reading in your post, but I wonder something.... Why is your W the WAS? Are you sure YOU aren't the WAS? You doing GAL is showing a lack of interest in her? You stepping back and letting her have her independence is showing a lack of interest in her? She has an expectation of your duties, and you are trying to back out of them? I don't know, maybe I'm still not understanding what a "healthy" relationship looks like. I understand codependency being bad. But having a life that is fully intertwined, and both partners liking it that way, I think CAN work. Withdrawing from that pattern without notice sounds cold?
ofp, Why am I here. I have spent a bit of time thinking about your questions and I have gone over a lot in my head. why is my wife the WAS / or whatever you want to call it...she is the one who has stopped sharing affection, intimacy, desire, passion and attention, she's the one asking for space, telling me she was not happy, that maybe she never loved me, that she didn't want to pretend anymore, that she doesn't know who she is, that she doesn't like who she has become, took her ring off...there are more things that I've heard over the last 5 years from her. her crisis to figure herself out continues. I understand it better now, but still all I can do is stop trying to fix her, show compassion and accept who she is and let her grind through it. That does not mean that I need to stop and wait for her to make that choice. I needed to start moving forward in my life, living how I want and need to in order to enjoy who I am, treating others the way I would like to be treated, and really to ‘become the man only a fool would leave’
I don't think that a life that is fully intertwined is necessarily healthy, even when both of us try to live that way. Look we have a HUGE, encompassing list of people on this board alone that are proof that, that kind of enmeshment just doesn't work long term - even leaving abusive childhoods out of the equation even (7 and 14 year marks are so common it is chilling). I read memes every day where love is all about being that close, and how wonderful and all that is - I love those sorts of meme's , but over a long time...I think that is how you lose you sense of self...and that is murder to a marriage.
you and I are givers, right? we give and give and give. our wives, well they are takers. over the years, our marriages have drained our self-worth, and our sense of who we are...and we not only allowed it, we embraced it as our sense of duty. That intertwined, enmeshment was not healthy. all it ever did was really created more resentment and anger. giving up that resentment is key to moving forward. giving up the expectations too and the anger should be goals to.
I know I keep hammering this home, but the gal is necessary for us to regain a foothold of who we are. some independence, who would not want a fairly independent woman who Chooses to spend her lives with us and us to share ours with them.
be careful with the concept of 'letting them'.... our wives are full grown women who have every right to choose. you don't get to say what they can chose and what they cannot. maybe that is something to work on, understanding that two grown adults can live together in matrimony and still free-willed individuals, who with respect each other’s choices and can still share lives and love through compromise and sharing. I would like for that in my life very much and really that is the blueprint for how I chose to live.
As for GAL (again) we use these activities to fill our lives with joy and excitement, with interpersonal relationships, with experiences outside our everyday grind. can these be shared with wife, he'll ya why not. if they want to, otherwise nothing wrong with going and doing your own thing and her doing her own thing...as long as your activities are not violating each other's boundaries than why not (obviously the full other end is to spend no time together which is just as disastrous). you bring energy and stories to revel about back to the home.
my grandmother told me 20 years ago...and although it has stuck with me...it didn't click till more recently, "you marry for better or worse, not breakfast lunch and dinner" it is more true to me now than when she said it.
as far as me doing this without notice. my wife and I have discussed being more active outside of the home...she has encouraged my activities, including roller derby, gaming groups, going out with my brothers more, guitar, fitness and the school board stuff. we have done many of these and other things together, too.
I believe there needs to be a healthy compromise. one author list 15 hours a week of couples time. is that too high, too low, idk...I have tried to use that as a target number at least...and it has been like that for well over a year now. I am her greatest cheerleader in all that she does. as for interest, I encourage her cultivating hobbies, schooling, activities, work, events, health-exercise, clubs, whatever. I sit and am attentive to her daily unload that she needs, put everything else aside and engage her during these talks, whether it is 10 minutes or longer, so be it. I remember a time...a long time where I could not stand that as soon as I came home from work (10-12 hour day) she wanted to spill all that crap on me and I couldn't handle it, because I was not getting the reciprocation. That was me, not meeting her basic needs (just one little example).
there are lots of books out there on the needs of our spouses...I've read a couple of them and really tried to focus on those things I know she needs. if anything, I have errored on the side of too much attention to her needs.
I also have continued to spend a ton of time with my kids one on one and as a family. Trying to keep a healthy compromise.
so back to the original question. am I the WAS at this time, hmmm...not sure. in a healthy relationship, continued detachment and moving further away emotionally and physically to the point of eradication of actual connection would certainly indicate that i were, but that is nowhere near my goal. I am giving my wife the time and the space to actually chose if she wants to stay as my wife. maybe that does not come through in my posts because I focus so much on me and my journey.
I am not going to pretend that maybe there isnt a bit of truth that I AM starting to figure a way out, trying to decide if I’ve had enough. I try not to let that dictate my path right now. I have certainly given my relationship my full attention for a long time. I have made changes to my behavior to my wife, my kids, myself and just in general. I live a more full life than I ever did...despite all of this, hope still fades of a mutually beneficial relationship, and there are things still missing, pieces of a healthy relationship that may never return. There are times that I simply want to be done with trying. The day before mother’s day, my wife railed on my son for over 5 minutes because of a bandage had come off of his hand. She asked what he was doing, he told her drawing (he was upstairs, it was later…basically bed time). She railed about wasting time instead of going to bed, about wasting money with the bandage coming off. So here is the deal…he was working on her mothers day card and when drawing the tegaderm bandage kept getting caught and rubbing off. I just wanted to pack my kids up and leave. I was not protecting them. Here is a little boy, 11 year old trying to make a card for his mother and she is railing on him, full out berating him and him standing there, crying, taking it. I spent the next ˝ hour putting him to sleep and then bawling my eyes out in anger over my impotence to do anything to help him while it went on. So ya, maybe there is confusion on my part too…and I’ve typed this quickly so i am sure I am all across the map.
I hope that gives a little more insight to me and my path. Sorry, I hate the "sermon"-ly feel for how these come off. I hate internet conversations...can't express sentiment the same as in person, overshare on one piece and not really explain what you are looking for on the others. some of my answers do come off as defensive (or even a little crazy) so I apologize for that, I need to reread them and let simmer in
I will start a new thread soon, things have been pretty busy for me.
