Need some help from the DB community! Crunch Time!

[cbtdad]

Had IC and MC sessions today
Things with IC went great.
Told her I really want to focus on control, trust and verbal abuse as things I need to work on
She gave me some things to be doing and told me the whole point of this is to make me the best person with or without W
She advised that I do not move out of house yet based on where things are with wife
That I continue to do the things I'm doing and reassess in a couple weeks

So I hear that and put it away
We go to MC
Before we get to MC things are great
By the time we leave MC not so much
W really just doesn't trust that I can make these changes and that they will last
Said she has heard it all before
Said she feels like she has tried to tell me this
She said she still doesn't know what she wants, etc
At this point I'm so torn
Do I stay and continue to just give her her space or do I just go

[Accuray]

That's why I vote for "go". W is looking at you through the eyes of a skeptic so she's going to see a "half empty" perspective on what you do.

Once when I was married W would complain that she would come home and the kitchen would be messy, so one night I spent two hours cleaning the kitchen before she got home. When she got home she walked in and didn't say anything, and then went to get a glass for some water. The first thing she said was to complain that the glasses were in the wrong cabinet and why don't I know where the glasses go?

That's what you're probably going to be facing right now -- fault finding -- because it reinforces the story she's already told herself.

If you remove yourself from the situation and aren't right under her nose, she can have room to breathe and gain some perspective. Over time she will realize that you really weren't as bad as she told herself, and then she'll start looking for evidence that she may have been wrong about you. That's when she'll start seeing what you *are* doing versus what you're *not* doing.

Living in the same house, with W convinced that it's "too little too late" I don't see any way you're going to cross over into positive territory.

One of the books I read, and I don't remember which one, talked about the "love bank" concept where each thing you do in a relationship either makes deposits in the love bank or takes withdrawals. Once the love bank is empty or running a deficit, one person is going to want to leave.

There are "blockers" that will prevent you from being able to make any deposits regardless of what you do. That's the state you're in, so really nothing positive you do will matter, whereas anything negative that you do will take additional withdrawals.

If you get out from under her, you won't be making withdrawals any more and can give space for the blocker to lift.

Acc

[Ralph88]

The 5 love languages.

[cbtdad]

Acc,
I brought up the possibility of me leaving in MC. I said, I've been thinking the best move may be for me to get my own place after S graduation so that we can both have the space we need. The look on her and MC face was crazy.
She says, "this is the emotional roller coaster I'm talking about. It's exhausting(starts crying). One minute you say you want to do everything to save this maririage and make sure S has the stability we didn't have. Then the next you are talking about moving out. Pick a lane and stay on it"
She definitely got upset. Also said that I would just move out to show her how hard it would be with out me and to just prove a point.
She went on to say that she said she was done fighting for us now but that she would think her actions on speaking more than her words.
And that's he confusing part. She has been doing more "loving" things lately
We even went to target and bought a bunch of new stuff for kitchen in the house
The problem I have right now which is making me want to leave is feeling like nothing more than a good friend.
She certainly isn't feeling my love tank with my language which is physical touch

[cbtdad]

Also thanks for the idea on Airbnb
There are 5 or 6 places near by that I can rent a room
I've definitely done all the planning to do so
At this point it's a matter of time before I do or not
I will hang in through next week for S graduation
Then it will be decision time

[Accuray]

Hi cbtdad,

Sorry this is so difficult. I loved your sentiment that she isn't filling your love tank. You're right, she's not!

She says, "this is the emotional roller coaster I'm talking about. It's exhausting(starts crying). One minute you say you want to do everything to save this maririage and make sure S has the stability we didn't have. Then the next you are talking about moving out. Pick a lane and stay on it"

Well I hope here is where the MC stepped in to ask what your W is doing to save this marriage. What effort is she investing etc.? The fact that you're at the point of moving out indicates that she's not pulling her weight.

Her comment here was very unfair -- you've been working on it for THREE YEARS, not "one minute", and she doesn't get to dictate that you "pick a lane and stay in it" as she has been lane changing all over the place and isn't accountable to you.

I think that declaration was you signaling that you're going to move the other direction and she didn't like it, because she wants the timetable and the decision to be hers. I don't think she got upset because she's feeling loving, she just doesn't want the decision to be made before she's ready.

She has been doing more "loving" things lately

More detail please! We only see the relationship through the keyhole that you show us. What has she been doing that's loving? Just a couple days ago on the 14th and 15th you were posting about how she was ignoring you around the house, refused to say goodnight, was sleeping in your bed with her neighbor friend, etc. That treatment seemed to be the opposite of "more loving" and it wasn't that long ago. Is she not picking a lane and staying in it?

Acc

[cbtdad]

Hey Acc,
Sorry I'm just responding. Was on the golf course. I've been playing golf again and I'm realizing how much I missed it. I see now that over the last 6-8 months that I really stopped doing a lot of things for me and was really attached to wife and family. So much so that I was questioning her movements without me all the time. New friends, new job, etc
Instead of supporting her in these things I smothered her and tried to control my environment. So that I wouldn't get hurt again. I completely see this now. But anyways that's how we got here
So yes. When I brought up moving she didn't like that idea. And that's when she started crying and brought up picking a loane staying in it. MC agreed with her on this and didn't really push my wife. I have a feeling he will next session next week. He's learned her pretty well. She is very tough to get stuff out of her and she is one of the most stubborn people I have ever met.
As far as "loving"
I mean that she has been doing things for me such as cooking and waiting on me to get home to eat. She has been joking and laughing with me. Sending funny texts,etc
In the month that this has been going on I would say majority of time its been a lot better between us
Problem is, its not the stuff that is important to me. Hence not filling up my love tank
But I know this isn't an overnight thing
She even said yesterday that yes it is better and its been easier around the house with me pitching in.
I was happy last night because she showed respect
Friend that stayed over a few nights in bed was around again because she was done with school and celebrating
Anyways earlier in afternoon I had told W that I don't think that anything is going on in bedroom between W and friend. I also understand why she doesn't want to drive home. But I do think its inappropriate for her to stay in bedroom with you. We already have a confused 6 year old right now. No reason to confuse him anymore.
Well last night she stayed the night, but not in bedroom and W asked me first. So that was a better sign
I think this can work if I stay away from R talk and persuing
The thing is I don't know if I can do that
That's why I'm looking at it both ways

[cbtdad]

I had a good talk with DB coach last night. Told her I did backslide a couple times over the last couple weeks, like bringing up R talk once and getting angry with W, but overall things are better.
She made me do an exercise which was interesting. She had me role play as my wife and asked me some questions. Questions like, "W, how do you think cbtdad sees you as a wife and mother?"
After we did the exercise she repeated the answers as if she was my W and what I said. WOW!! To listen to it back was brutal.
I can clearly see why W would want to run

I also realize how often I would just steamroll my W and control everything. I wasn't being a partner.
DB coach says based on things she is hearing W is opening up, but is very scared to let her guard down and get hurt by me again
She gave me some very good advice on listening, validating and empathizing. Something I am awful at. I just want things my way and want to "fix" it
She told me same thing IC did. Based on where things seem that I should continue to stay in guestroom as long as I can detach and not bring up any R talk outside of MC. Then reassess where everything is in a few weeks.
So my goals right now are to continue to give her space by not texting her unless she text me first and then keeping it short.
No R talk!!! No gifts!
And I will continue to GAL like I have been
I still need to detach and not worry about what she is doing and how it will effect me

[cbtdad]

Ugh
mad at myself
petty but still mad
I had almost made it 24 hours no texts but I saw funny meme that was hilarious and sent it to her. She responded right away but still
Time to restart the clock

[dream]

It happens. As you said, just start over.