Need some help from the DB community! Crunch Time!

[Accuray]

cbtdad,

Sorry I make you cringe! Often the advice you get is not to leave the house because if you do, and your spouse is vindictive, they can spin it into an abandonment claim, or their lawyer will threaten to do so to use that as leverage against you.

First of all, I think the chances of that happening are actually pretty low. Your W doesn't seem like she wants to deny you access to your son. Secondly, you don't have to leave with all your stuff in the middle of the night. You can formalize a separation plan that you both agree to. Discuss it with a lawyer if you're worried.

I don't think you can make this better living under the same roof.

There is too much pressure, too much emotion. DB'ing is near impossible as it is. I really, really think you should make it worse in order for it to get better. Make a plan to move out and share it with W.

Where to go? Get on AirBNB and HomeAway and Craigslist and look for someone renting a room, or a short term apartment rental. Sign up for a couple weeks initially and then reassess. Sometimes people will rent you a room in their house with varying degrees of privacy. Having other people in the house may be a good thing to combat feeling alone.

You need to give W relief from feeling under the microscope, and you need to do it right away. The only way you're going to do that is to go the other direction, and to do so in a big way.

I *know* you're scared. I was scared, it was the most terrifying thing ever! I remember talking to my IC and sharing that I didn't think I'd find anyone to date who would be as wonderful as my W. My IC actually laughed at me.

The reality is that I had NO PROBLEM finding wonderful women to date and I'm no Adonis. Should the worst thing happen and you end up divorced, you will have no problem finding another great relationship, and from what you've learned through this process the next one will be even better.

We're not there yet, and I'm definitely NOT encouraging you to date at this point, but I am telling you that if you come out the other side it's not the end of the world, and it's not doom and gloom. You'll be just fine, and you will be happy, with W or without her.

She is NOT the key to your happiness, you are. In order to get there, you need to do some healing. She is NOT the key to your healing, you are, and it's going to take you some time.

Rearview mirror, every decision I was afraid of making (1) was not nearly as dire or significant as I made it out to be, (2) was not irreversible, and (3) would have been better made sooner than later.

The stakes simply are not as high as you fear for taking bold and dramatic action. The stakes for taking half measures and "wait and see" are very high indeed. Inaction is erosion. Stop the erosion by changing the landscape.

Acc

[Ralph88]

I second the thoughts. My WW was already making her decisions to move on to somebody else. Pretty much nothing I could have done would have changed her views. Did I mess up after BD? Yes. Didn't matter. Everything was supporting her plan. She was 'confused' and didn't know I what she wanted... Blah blah... I gave her all kinds of room and space, and she had already been developing a new relationship. Had I stayed in the mb and house, it wouldn't have forced her to stop. It would have just been much messier and went underground. She made her choices and I'm better off not being with someone that doesn't cherish and dedicate herself to me. My kids and I don't deserve that.

[tjcran]

Acc and Ralph88,

Not to hijack the thread, but what you guys just wrote was exactly what I needed to hear. I've hit a rough patch as I realize my marriage is hopeless and I hold on to the memories of who my W used to be. She is not who I want to be married to anymore, but she originally rejected me and that hurts a ton. As we have all experienced, it feels like you can't go on. But, as you both state, I will go on and it will get better. Thank you.

[DDJ]

@cbtdad, I am also afraid to just drop her. Perhaps even telling her that you're going to do it will be more than enough to show her that you're serious about making things work. But follow through.

What do you really have to lose, besides your sanity?

[Accuray]

You can't drop what you don't have.

[cbtdad]

Thanks Acc!!
I don't mean cringe in a bad way. Just that you make me really take a hard look at the situation. lol
I had a chat with one of our mutual friends last night. This seems to really be about me not trusting her and smothering her.
I was worried a few weeks ago that I had a WW again, which is why I snooped. Once I found out that that wasn't the case I stopped snooping. To me a WW and WAW are two different things and I needed to know what I was dealing with. If I had a WW this time again I would walk out and never look back. I couldn't deal with that again.
I've decided that I will stay until next week at least until sons graduation. At that point I will make the move if that's what needs to be done.
Do you think I should have the conversation like you said?
Just tell her my plans to stay until next week and then I plan on moving out giving both of us the space we need?

[Accuray]

Yes I do recommend doing that. I really don't see any difference in a WW vs a WAW. The only difference from my perspective is that you can't do *anything* with a WW until the affair ends, but at that point they typically become a WAW so really there's no difference.

I have a friend who cheated on his W because he had developed a "work spouse" who he traveled with for work all the time. One night they both drank too much and had sex. Afterwards, he was extremely remorseful, owned what he did, and apologized very sincerely to his wife. He gave her full access to his accounts, let her know his whereabouts, etc. He apologized and showed remorse, and tried to make amends.

That kind of cheating happens too, and that would require a different approach, but those people don't usually end up here. The people who end up here tend to have a spouse who is "done" and either walks away (if they are strong) or has an exit affair (if they are weak). Either way, they're not really looking to re-engage with their spouse, so what the LBS should be doing is the same.

I suspect that in your case, and correct me if I'm wrong, your wife originally gave you access to her accounts and whereabouts, but didn't commit to the relationship with her heart.

Because you knew she wasn't committed in her heart, you remained uneasy and felt the need to continue to monitor.

Because you continued to monitor and temperature check, your wife felt like you didn't trust her and that pushed her farther away, because you can't have intimacy in the absence of trust.

So now here you are -- your wife feels scrutinized and like she's treated as if she's guilty. You feel unappreciated, and like you have a spouse who doesn't really love you the way you need her to. Both of you are suffering from the lack of intimacy.

How can you repair that in the same house under the same roof? You can't unless you *both* want to. She's not sure she wants to. You need to give her the space to *want it*. While you're giving her the space, you need to *rock* your own life. You need to be the better choice.

If you do that, you literally cannot lose no matter what happens.

I saw my ex this weekend and she was wearing a T-shirt that said "Fries Before Guys" with a picture of french fries on it -- thought you would enjoy that -- it's the WAW attitude in a nutshell.

Acc

[cbtdad]

Acc,
No need to correct you on most of that buddy. You nailed a lot of it. We reconciled in 7/2013. We moved in 8/2013.
Which happened to be a lot closer to the OM at that time. Went from being 8 hours away to 45 minutes. I wanted to move as well and I grew up where we live now so it worked for me. W had made friends with OM friends and we would actually hang out with them
It was awkward at first, but we are actually still friends with them and even went on a cruise together.
So in the beginning the trust and transparency with me was a huge deal!! Here we were in the same city with the OM now.
As time went by it got better and better. 2014 was pretty good for the most part. There were definitely times I questioned on getting back together and whether I would ever be able to trust again. 2015 was actually really good up until around august when the EMT stuff started. After a little hiccup we actually had a great few months. I would say we started feeling distant in January of this year. I think this time around it's her pulling out flag really early before it gets like last time.
But you nailed the cycle. She even asked the MC last week. "I know what the cycle is, how do we break it?"
That's when she also said she was waiting for a feeling or a sign

Ive concluded that I am going to wait to see what MC appointment is like tomorrow. If its the same old same ole than this weekend I will inform her of my plans to move out and give us space.
It's been a month and I would say over all things a better between us. But as Ive said, I don't want just a friend. I want a wife and a partner

[Accuray]

Sorry again cbtdad. One suggestion I found really helpful is that I would meet with our MC 1:1 between sessions. He would say things to me in private that he wouldn't say in front of both of us, and I was also able to steer him towards where I wanted to go and what I wanted him to stay away from.

Its all about preparation, you don't want to be caught flat-footed or go in a direction you're not comfortable with.

The answer to your wife's question about how to break the cycle is that both of you need to adopt a "pay it forward" attitude, or "ask not what my spouse has done for me, but what I can do for my spouse"

As my DB coach taught me, your feelings follow your actions. If you act loving, you will feel loving. If your W is nice to you, she will feel good about you. It's really as simple as that.

Where that breaks down for many couples is that person A will do something nice for person B, and person B won't respond the way they expected. They therefore feel disappointed/shunned/etc. and that makes them put their guard up. They made an overture and the overture was rejected. Therefore they're unlikely to make the same overture again, and eventually any overture, because they don't want to feel rejected and hurt.

It's often a five love languages thing where people reach out in ways they would like to receive. If that's not your channel, you may miss the overture and fail to respond appropriately. The "golden rule" I have learned is that if your spouse or partner does *anything* nice for you you need to respond with sincere gratitude, even if it's not your thing. Your relationship needs to have a culture of gratitude, because if it does, it's a safe place to make overtures and that's what you want.

Acc

[cbtdad]

Funny you mentioned that Acc
I sent MC an email telling him I liked the exercise we did last time which even got the W to ask the question, "how do we fix it"
He responded thanks for the feedback and now he knows what direction to head in.
To me love is absolutely a choice. If you choose to do something the feelings will follow. I've already noticed that myself. When I do things for W it makes me feel good about the situation. Then in return she has been cooking, etc lately. Which she knows is a big deal for me.
Our problem is exactly what you talk about. I can count so many times that W does an "act of service" for me but I don't think its a big deal and don't respond how I should. That's her love language and I don't know it. Im trying to learn it
Mine is physical touch. Not just sex, but give me a hug and kiss when I get home and I would run circles for her
Its the cycle that has to be broken