the road goes ever on and on...

[Zues126]

Shoot, I suppose I should try to respond to all of this now! Thanks for the replies, seriously.

Painter, first off I appreciate you being conversational when I get a bit out of line. I will admit that I have some personality tendencies, all or nothing is one, expansive thinking is another. All forms of distorted thinking I'm learning to manage.

I don't stand by my statement comparing marriage to prostitution. For one thing, it never dawned on me that in a traditional marriage that women were taking advantage of men. I always saw it as two different types of creatures with different needs and desires partnering in a way that both could be fulfilled. The man being the one to provide the opportunity for the woman to nurture the young ones. The theory being that men are wired to crave reproduction, and women are wired to crave the stability and protection to raise the young. So I always thought from a gender stand point that while women and men were equal, that didn't mean that we don't have different needs, priorities, or natural tendencies, and that both genders complimented each other. So before going further I'll say that the mention of prostitution was one I repeated without really buying into. What I was really saying is that if this is the deal in a traditional marriage then the larger amount of WAW's could stem from them still getting their basic needs met (stability and provisions for them and the children) and men not getting their basic needs met (sex) in a post divorce setting. Obviously people's needs are much more diverse in practice.

I think any fear I've had of the women's lib movement is that if this model is cast out, I don't know where I fit in. As women don't need men for protection or stability, and the idea of being expected to provide sexually is becoming a social indignation, I feel useless and ashamed of my needs.

When you say 'men seem to want it that way' I can only speak for myself when I say "YES". NOT that I want to simply pay for sex, but that I do want a way in which I can have my sexual needs validated and satisfied. Not to say my only contribution of a marriage is money, frankly I longed for more quality time and companionship as well, but only because I would've done about anything for a partner that understood my physical needs and cared for me enough to prioritize them.

Make no mistake, I support women's lib. Does it impact marriage rates, I have no idea. If anything I've more wondered about the implementation. I absolutely stand behind the idea that women should have the right to choose any path they want, with no legal or social barriers in their way. The legal part is the easy part it seems. What's hard is to understand what is society's oppression and resistance to change, versus natural differences between genders. Say women are only 30% of a given field. How do we determine if there is discrimination or oppression at work, versus natural predisposition for different roles? I don't know. And I think there is a lot of confusion about that, and about what a marriage should look like, and what are reasonable expectations from each other, etc. That confusion doesn't come just from women's lib either, it comes from the information age, the exposure to so many different ideas and beliefs, and much more evolution, much of which is positive and necessary. I just think that the resulting confusion has negatively impacted the marriage rate.

Maybe that's a good thing. I mean, if long lasting relationships can only form under extreme duress in poverty situations when people aren't free to choose their own paths in life, then maybe the institution of marriage is a worthy sacrifice.

But in the end I don't get all of this, it's beyond my scope, and it's out of my control. I just have to come back to this. Is there a partner I can find a similar vision with, in terms of validating our differences, remaining committed to both doing everything possible to thrive as a team, and to staying together even if it doesn't work so that best case we figure it out down the road and worst case we preserve our underlying love? Is this an expansive idealistic distorted notion that I need to let go? Or am I assessing things correctly that, distorted or not, this is what I would require to want to partner again, and it's just not there. That if the consensus is to order pizza with anchovies and mushrooms which I don't care for, then not eating pizza is my best choice.

Hey guys, I've already admitted that while I'm totally fine day to day, I'm shattered in my soul about the loss of my marriage, and while after a couple of years I am starting to think that won't ever change, I also realize that I don't know where I'll be in 5-10 years either. I'm not making any vows before God about swearing off relationships.

Oh, as to Juju's question about accepting loss as part of the journey, all I can say is some things can't be replaced. I will never have the marriage I wanted or believed in. "You don't get a second chance, life is no Nintendo game".

Finally, I think there was a question about how preoccupied I was prior to my D. No, I wasn't nearly as involved with social tendencies. I mean, I heard the marriage stats and thought it was horrible, I was disgusted by the betrayals and cheapening behavior I saw, but ultimately I had the naive idea that only applied to those that weren't as passionately and profoundly committed as I was. Now I realize that I am in a very small minority, and as it takes two such minorities to connect, the divorce epidemic applies to nearly everyone. So at first I was on the DB forums a lot fighting for my M, then for support and companionship and to give back. Now I want to do what I can to prepare to lead my children through this crazy changing world, and to cast my vote towards lifelong partnerships, even if that is antiquated and mine is the only ballot in that box.