WAS or what (6)

[roist]

Z the weekend went good. Thanks for thinking of me.

I am in a strange place right now. I cannot really explain it in a few lines. It is like I have taken a step back and am observing what is going on as an observer, evaluating, contemplating,wondering. Maybe there is a change in my thinking or maybe I am about to move to the next level. Or I could just be stagnating! But that doesn't seem true.

I am not in a bad place nor am I down. I am not giving up nor wanting out. Idk what I am but I am sure a learning will come from it.

I seem half hearted in my DBing but I also am affected partially or less long by negative stuff. I often think just after an interaction,it would have been better to handle it by XYZ but I don't try to make up for slips. I note it hopefully for future occasions.

I'll try explain this better when I have more time or when I see more clearly. I will just emphasize that I am sure this is all about me. A change in me or something like that. Maybe V can clarify .

We have a long weekend here so we are heading away. My initiative though it probably would have happened anyway. I wanted to take advantage of it so I suggested going away for a mini holiday (with kids).

Last week we went out for a meal which probably constitutes our first real date in a year.I use date in the lightest possible term. Again I saw an opportunity to have a babysitter so I wanted to make the most of it. We had a good meal. I feared having to drag conversation out of her, but she actually carried the conversation!!

I also prepared a thank you card and gift for something she did. I waited until the following day to give it to her as I thought it might be too much one night. Plus I wanted to see how we got on without that influencing it one way or another. That went OK too. But it was mire me showing appreciation than trying to affect her.

There seems to be some micro improvements in her opening up to me. I see baby steps. But at the same time the barriers are still being reinforced. It will be interesting to see if she puts more effort into opening up or those barriers. Time will tell.

Got to go. Probably won't get to write again until next week.UUntil then best wishes to anyone reading.

[Zephyr]

you know there will be folks here reading. it is just in newcomers there just aren't a ton of people who really understand what you are going through...so they don't post.

the ones that do keep falling by the wayside. you are doing absolutely awesome. I encourage you to read the latest posts by wonka (so glad to see her name pop up yesterday). apart fr9m a couoke if details she could have posted to you a year ago almost verbatim what she typed to coconuts. and look where you are, living that same advice every day.

you have been patient beyond words. you have been standing for something in the face of an adversity that your wife may never contemplate. sure you have cycled around from time to time...I do it all the time (yes thoughts if leaving still creep into my mind - i believe it is your protector trying to get you out of this).

if you leave though, you will not learn all of the lessons you were meant to, nor will you become the truely great man you were meant to be.

yes your wife is not there yet. she has just started to open up a bit. keep it light when you interact. ultimately you will have slip ups, reverting to old behaviors and she will notice and draw away...it is how you react the. that will matter. her walls cannot come down until she faces her reality that you are not the grumpy guss that she closed herself from. and along the way you will continue to teach her about those things you are learning (I say teach but i mean show her with Actions and not words) about compassionate and gratitude and acceptance all that stuff you've been trudging theough. I believe we have spoken about this path.

I don't know why I believe it is the RIGHT path, it just feels right and it seams like you have that same insight. keep that focus on you and what is ultimately making you happy to be alive...it shows through in every one of your interactions and she will begin to accept it or maybe she won't (although I doubt that).

wow, I am typing and i have a great smile on my face. I am talking about hope...more what is there in reality right now. yay!!!

have a great extended weekend, I hope the weather suits you and you're able to enjoy yourself!!!

[roist]

Z I am up early, before the others and am enjoying a lovely beach all for me and a few seagulls. It is lovely and the sun is warn. A simple pleasure I enjoy. I will have many such moments over the weekend. Some alone, some shared.

I am glad you are basked in hope. I too have hope. I understand why many don't know what to say on my thread. I read a bit in mlcssection but at the time I could nit contemplate going through what many seem to do there. I'll look up wonka when I get back.

Thanks for your continued company on my journey . It is not finished

My next big task is determining the best discipline/parenting style going forward. It is a big issue for me and for us. We have not the same vision of how to proceed. It is too complicated an issue to outline briefly but my W repeats instructions a lot and I think the kids are old enough to behave without 50 reminders.

I have not been as strong in this as I would have liked. Partly because W is a great mother and due to her working hours she is with them more. Partly because I didn't want to create further ripples in our troubled M. But mostly because I was not sure of a better way to proceed.

Now this is a source if discontent for me that has to be resolved.It is an opportunity to work together and improve family life.But nay also be the opposite.RRegardless that is my current priority project.

Our boys are good lads but high spirited.

I am aware this could be a mine field or a gold mine. But it us on my path. Our path!!

[DDJ]

Roist, I sense alot of self-doubt regarding where you see yourself, moving forward, in your last post. I have not followed your thread so i am just commenting on the post, and would like to say that only you can decide whether you want to plant mines or dig deep for gold.

[roist]

For me it is an opportunity but even if it explodes it is my path.II will do my utmost to make it golden but I can only guide it so far as on this it takes two to tango. But I am a much more active and better dad than before. And I am still growing.

But I am not doubting myself.I am just somewhere new on my journey. Thank you for your viewpoint. It is always good to have an outside voice.

[roist]

I am recopying here something I started to work on earlier during my previous thread. I'll post later how I think I am getting on with this.

Earlier I mentioned the tool to change character traits well here are my two lists. The traits I am working on changing are
1. low self esteem,
2. Indecisive/ unsure what to do
3. A pleaser putting my needs last.
4. Doubter/pessimist
5. Communication. Keep everything to myself.

The traits I am working towards are:
1. Assertive/confident
2. Decisive
3. Optimist.PMA
4. Empathize, validate,
5. emotionally open

My third list of my good traits is:
1 determination... don't give up
2 faithful
3 honest
4 willing to try
5 reliable

[roist]

Traits to change:
1 With the odd moment of lapse I do not have low self esteem and like myself much more than before this all began. I am not finished becoming who I want to be, so I imagine I will gain even more self esteem as I grow.

2 I guess this is just my nature and hence is slow to change. I have made great progress but all the peices are not in place.............. yet.

3 I don't consistently put my needs last anymore. I don't always put them first either. I don't let my needs get pushed by others.

4. I am definitely less pessimistic in general. Many of the stuff that would have been catastrophic before, I now realize is just inconvenient. Hence not so drastic.

5. I am tweaking and improving my communication. I am letting down some of my own guards. I know to thread carefully with W and not to flood her, but I use many opportunities to communicate that previously I could have missed/let go by. If my W asks my opinion on anything or what do I want to do etc, I NEVER EVER reply I don't know or I don't care. Any such question is an opportunity. I aim to rise to any such opportunity and in doing so I find I am more interesting, so win-win.

Traits I am working towards:

1 Assertiveness/confidence. I am more assertive and confident than before. In the past some kind 2x4s have been swung at me for being a puppet. I am aware of that dynamic and am slowly changing it. I will not let my W or anyone away with blatant disrespect.

2 Decicive. I am more in touch with what I want so making décisions in function is improving. I often ask myself what I want, before deciding stuff. I have been fairly passive in the past so this is a slow process.

3. Optimist/PMA. I choose to be optimistic about my situation. There are many reasons to believe. But more in general, i tend to be more optimistic. I will admit my PMA does not shoot up on the high end of the scale, but I can keep it in the positive side most of the time. But during GAL, I do switch off from my situation and enjoy myself much better than earlier on.

4. empathisz/validation. I am improving these but it is not yet automatic. Sometimes my W could say something and the best I can do is STFU and not retaliate. I am aware I miss some opportunities to validate and intend to work on that.

5. Emotionally open. Again I am improving. Whereas I don't have all of the nice guy traits (or at least not now), I did before have a tendancy to hide my shortcomings/mistakes etc. I now accept who I am warts and all and am able to be open about shortcomings etc. In general I am more open. I look forward to the day I can have a real emotionally open R with my W. If that does not happen, I will with someone else. It is sure. I was a very closed book, but I am now ready and able to share its content.

Overall I am happy with the progress made. I see where there is still work to be done. It is a work in progress and probably always will be.

The downside of improving self esteem and image of self is that I now value myself much more and know I deserve better. Ultimately I may have to decide to walk away, but I am further from doing that than I was six months ago.

For those of you unfamiliar with what I just outlined, it is a tool I borrowed from Caliguy, which helps you become who you want to be. You work to remove some bad traits, work towards some better traits and keep the ones you are happy with. Many here have found it helpful.

I'll have to relook at my actions lists soon to see if I am really meeting my goals.

Thanks for reading

[Mowgli]

You are a rock, Roist

I truly have so much admiration for what you've accomplished. There are very few who can endure as you have.

Thank you for inspiring us all!

[roist]

Thanks Mowgli,

Whereas I admit I probably would not describe myself quiet like that, I cannot express how much I appreciate you taking the time to say so. It really means a lot to me. I appreciate the support.

I am glad to read how things are going for you.

Best wishes.

[roist]

While I work, I like to listen to Ted talks, films on internet or podcasts. My recent listening topic revolves around parenting. I was just looking into discipline but now I am hip deep in a much more global outlook.

What I have found out is fascinating......to me anyway. It is also heavy going because so many experts differ in their views. I thought I had been a good dad. I put in the time right from day 1, always had their best interest at heart etc etc. But boy relooking at the global long-term raring of children I could do so much better.

I have found an approach that resonates with me. So far I have listened to loads of hours describing it and it sounds great. I need to dig deeper to see how to implement it in real life, but that is taking shape.

Basically the theory is you treat your kids well, with respect and really connect with them. With connection they will be happier and should WANT to do what you want. It is much more detailed than that. The science behind it is fascinating. Happy connection releases a hormone ( oxytocin)
and this does marvelous stuff. Best drug ever.

I could not help but wonder is this the same mechanism that occurs during affairs. The process, the connection, the addiction.

Back to my research. I am zoning in on one or two "experts" and may buy one of their books for the practical implementation. The theory sounds great. A bit like the family in "seventh heaven".When I was young I used to watch that and think it was impossible to have such a connected loving family. Maybe it isn't possible but I am aiming to try have such a R with my sons.

I have already started some stuff recently heard and will develop this going forward. They love the gratitude activity I do with them.

Hope this made sense. It is very condensed summary.But the improvement work continues. It is exciting and a great distraction from my situation.

Thanks for reading.have a good weekend.