I am content, that is a blessing.......

[mleigh4]

He replies, I know you picture me angry and yelling. Well, I'm not. And I'm not a doctor, but I wish I was so you would consider things I say. I can do my best to learn and do better. Yes I missed the therapy appointment and am fully aware of that and glad you have something to continually tell me about. My offer stands on sending me any ideas for teaching S to be a productive adult. I will read and consider everything and will even try it if it sounds better than what I'm trying to do. I will try to find some information too.

I replied, you think I picture you mad and yelling?? You think I talk bad about you to S? Where do you get this crap from? You think reading articles and case studies allows you to preach? You want to send them to me? Hmmmm I know where that comes from. Well no, I think you are happy as a clam living the life you always wanted and finally have. So now, please leave me the F alone.

I can't always be sweet and nice, right?

He said he has answers to all of that but I am obviously not interested. I have made it clear I don't care and he expects a response telling him everything he has done wrong so he will leave me alone.

You know guys, it's almost like he WANTS me to tell him what a jerk he is, for all he has done. It's like my not ever saying anything, never giving him a hard time, always being nice to him, is driving him crazy!? Maybe it makes the guilt worse? I wont give him that satisfaction.

[CaliGuy]

M

That is a big part of it, yelling at them does give them the attention they seem drawn towards, when we are GAL and detached it's a curve they are not expecting so they will do a little dance, tug on a shirt, maybe even act up just to get some attention and once they have it ... It's back to your regular MLC broadcast. The guilt is always there, sometimes that is validated, sometimes it bubbles up like a volcano and is released a bit by the various outbursts till they can figure out how to justify the behavior.

Least that's my nickel from what I've learned in all this

[HaWho]

Hi Mleigh - oh gosh, now you've really earned your glass of wine.

Wow, he kind of sounds paranoid. Weird. And boy oh boy is he gunning for a fight. He must be receiving the same signals from the mother ship that my h was receiving before he left. Your s is a child! Geez, he is jumping the gun with this push for making him a productive adult.

Oh, back to the MLC free zone.

[mleigh4]

I am proud of everything I said to him yesterday, until my final and last comment to him that he needs help and if he isn't careful he is going to push S away or screw things up with him.

I wish I hadn't, I wish I could take it back, I really do. No one, especially him, wants to hear that and it wasn't my place to say it.

Well, I got the feedback I expected and may somewhat deserve for that comment. There was more about my parenting...but then he dived into some R talk....which may make this worth it.

He said I still don't recognize the reasons this has all happened and I don't know what he is going through so to stop diagnosing him. This did not happen because he wanted to live his life a certain way. It surprises him that I actually think I know what this is really about. To keep thinking what I want to protect myself, but it's not real. Some things are obvious and he has owned up to them, but for the most part I am completely off. He reminded me I was the one to move out first. He can think of many scenarios why I moved out, then demanded to come back, stay in the house, and keep the dog. Mostly that I demand to have S more often without consideration for anyone else. He has tried to get through this with as little conflict as possible for S. He has been more than understanding about S being with me more and keeping the dog. I twist things to make this all his fault. That I discount moving out first. Then when he moves out, I call it abandoning everyone. That I put aside anyone in my life who doesn't agree with me or see things my way. I take all the weight off myself and convince everyone this was the right thing to do and that I am better for it. Then I shouldn't complain and act like he forced me into this terrible life. He asked Should he apologize for me being in what I call a better life where I am happier? That I take any advice about my son personal when it's not about me, it's about what is best for S.

Whew!!! That's a lot at once. I had no idea that was in his head.

So, is this where I stay quiet? Do I respond with anything?

[mleigh4]

It's like he doesn't remember BD, the things he said and did. Or the fact he chose to move out, for some time to think, and has left me completely in the dark on hold? He thinks I tell people I am happier and better off now??

I want to tell him I do listen to people who give me advice about S, but I discount the ones have have screwed up kids!!

He s getting into my head, isn't he......

[twinmom]

I might be tempted to respond with, "Oh are you telling me that you want to work on our marriage? Because I would be more than happy to address all valid issues with you in a loving and supportive marriage.

[Sotto]

Hi Mleigh, well I think there may be some re-writing of history going on by him. Although the problems in your M presumably began with him, he's putting a slant on that - you made that choice and so etc. I must admit it's one of the things I worry about in that I chose to move out at BD. And, given all circumstances I would hate to have that cast back at me at some point.

What I would ask is whether you want to be having this difficult exchange about your R at all, and if so whether text/email is the best way? As we all know, trying to have a constructive exchange with a MLCer can be boggling at best, and it doesn't make sense to try and make sense out of some stuff they say. If there is anything in there of use to you, take it away and process that - otherwise, I would encourage you to take it all with a big pinch of salt.

Do you feel that there's something you need from him before you can truly let go? Or decide to stand further? Are you feeling you may want to file for D and you're trying to move things on in some way?

Looking at my own sitch, H filed for D anyway and so that choice wasn't left with me. I'm both glad and sad about that. Sad it happened and glad I didn't have to decide. I would say, if you're not ready to decide yet, let some more time pass. People say that you are normally very sure once you know you are done. But if you are hoping for some definite sign from him to move on or not, he may not deliver and all you are left with is negative and upsetting interactions.

So, I guess I'm trying to say - big pinch of salt - think about where you want to go with this - and accept that he may not have much constructive stuff to offer just now...

JMHO of course and take care x

[job]

I agree w/Sotto. If you opt to continue the conversation w/him, do it in person, not on paper. The written word can be misconstrued by all. He's itching for a fight. Something or someone has gotten under his skin and he needs to vent big time and unfortunately you and your son are his targets. He wants to blame everyone else for what is going w/him, but he can't see the light...it's him.

What do you need from him in order to move on? Do you need a heated argument or him to flat out tell you it's over and done with? Think about this for a while before responding. From where I'm sitting, he appears to be a bit stuck and continues to cycle over and over again about the same stuff. The only difference now is that he's added a dog house to the mix.

[mleigh4]

Thank you for your input Twinmom.

Sotto, I know texting is not the best way to communicate. Unfortunately, it's the only way H opens up. Face to face, I get mostly silence or just "I don't know" I also like it because I too am horrible at expressing myself face to face. Sadly, this works ok for me. I think this is my time, to see what I can get from him, what he is willing to admit. I know I am fed up with limbo. I know I am tired of having this left to be my choice to figure out, something I never wanted. I know I don't want to live like this much longer. I know I can't keep being sweet and nice with H while he continues to keep me in the dark. The longer this goes, the less I respect him or even like him. I love him, but that comes from our pre BD life. I am furious that he continues to hound me with stupid crap while there is a very big picture to be dealt with here, not whether S wears jimmies to bed or not.

I don't even know if this is MLC he is going through. For all I know, he is just a selfish jerk. Yes, I see many signs of depression, but if he refuses to get help, I see him not changing. Maybe he just simply is unhappy with me? Maybe he realizes he is not a family guy, that he wants to be alone? My mother did. Maybe I just want to believe this is MLC to make myself feel better. Maybe I want to push him to say he is done, so this can stop and I can, for once and for all, let go, heal and move on. I am not the type of person who can do that while still holding onto hope. I envy you who had the decision made for you instead of having to live with the choice, and I don't mean that in a mean way, I wish none of you had to go through that.

I also believe, MLC or not, you must have a trait, an ability, to treat someone who loves you so terribly. I don't think it goes away. Do I want to stay married to someone like that???

I once again, staying on track to be honest, laid it out with him. My message:

First off, thank you for sharing all of that. No seriously, I am glad you are opening up. We definitely see this differently, there is no doubt about that. When you moved out, it was against my wishes but what you felt you needed to do instead of counseling. Understandable. You told me you were confused, not sure about our marriage, and needed some space and time to think and figure things out. I have given you that, yes? You have not spoken to me once about how that is going for you, not in 15 months. I, thinking you may be dealing with some depression issues, have been the good wife. Patient, not pushing you, leaving you alone. I have done my best to be kind, to support you, to keep things light, open my door to you, invite you on vacations, spend family time for S, all of this for S, all while under a giant weight of pain, confusion and uncertainty. If I am wrong about what this is about, please let me know and fill me in because I have not been doing this for nothing. I have been doing this to try and save my marriage. It is severely broken and I am willing to do what I can, to know I tried everything, but I don't want to waste my time if that is what I am doing here? I need to know, this has been going on for 3 years, it can't keep going on like this.

[mleigh4]

Job, just saw your post. I have thought about this since BD. Yes, I think I want to force him to say it's done. He has been such a coward, I want him to tell me. I want a reason to get out.

He did what he wanted, got under my skin, hit me where he knows it hurts, with S, and I have just had enough of his crazy.