14 days of sheer hell

[DDJ]

I've just realised that she actually has no control over her life, and never has.

Sandi2, if i understand your various posts correctly, I need to take control of my life, and technically hers. I'm having the same issues with my 4 year old son. He believes that he has control, but I need to display discipline, which I have not in the past. The same discipline i need to show my WW?

The same discipline i have never shown her. Did I crack it - pls say yes!

[Cherry]

Ugh it's so hard isn't it. I'm with you, when they sit texting the op in front of you its heartbreaking. I ask myself how the sweet guy I married could cause me this amount of pain and have the sheer cheek to do this in front of me. But they aren't that person. They are utterly selfish, the most important thing to them is their happiness.

I think if you've suspend the contract she would still find a way to get in touch with them. Think of a drug addict- they would sell their grandma for a fix, a wayward is the same

[DDJ]

Yeah, so i rethought the cancelling contract thing and i realised that what my WW was missing was discipline.

I recall the other stories here, where the soon to be WW or H in a subtle way warns the spouse that they are attracted to someone else, normally very subtlely. They say things like, "there's this pretty girl at work" or "there's a guy at work that all of the girls just think are a dish".
This made me think that they are trying to warn us, they were looking for some sort of discipline to keep them on the straight and narrow. But I fogged it off, the very first time.

So now my WW has licence to lose respect for me, our marriage and herself. I definitely do not think that this is about love, I think it's about discipline. But love is discipline.

So I confronted my WW right now. I asked her if she respected me, our marriage, her vows and the house that we built together. Because if she did, then she would not TM, call or email the OP (in front of me or at all), as it was being disrespectful. It immediately put her on a different sort of defensiveness. She needed to justify why she should keep contact, saying "he's not a threat, blah blah". I tell her that if she had any respect that she would delete him.

She then says she'll delete him entirely from the phone. She says that she's done so. Ten minutes later, her phone goes PING. Guess who it was. I confront her about her lies, she lied to me right now, to my face! She says that she cannot control the attraction to him. I say that you don't respect yourself or me to lie to me to my face. She actually deletes him and is now off to sleep.

I think that tough love is about taking control back from the S, and making the right decisions for them, otherwise they will be in limbo, and you, until YOU do.

I'm definitely not out of the woods yet, but I have confronted the most difficult issue. I suggest that anyone reading this try it to.

So now counselling on Tuesday will focus on why she has lost control and in turn her respect. But who knows what tomorrow will bring :-)

[GWH]

DDJ,

My wife went as far as getting another cell so that she could contact the OM after she told me he was deleted from the cell account we shared. She moved out the very next day. Be careful!!

[Cherry]

I agree tread careful, I think we all do. Once we start to establish dbing we really think our actions through. Probably helps that we think logically and they're like a selfish teenager with a crush.

Last time round, my h would actually talk about the ow. Defend her! I told him not to ever text etc right in front of me. They always find a way though

I'm rooting for you

[sandi2]

Wait...........what?!? What happened to the man yesterday who was saying all that stuff about not letting her back in, and making her grovel? I honestly thought I was on the wrong thread and had to look back over the posts to make sure I was not confused.

So my wife still TM chats with the OP, in front of me. I really can't deal, but know that i have to.

What do you mean you know you have to deal with her TM with the OM in front of you? No, you don't tolerate that type of disrespect.

The arousal is innate and she needs to satisfy that sexual attention seeking too. Don't get me wrong, I made sure that I set it up so that I would sleep in the next room.

Well, I'm trying to not get you wrong........but maybe you should draw me a picture. What happened to the man who first came on board.....up till yesterday (according to the computer's date).

I've just realised that she actually has no control over her life, and never has.

So, who does have control of her? Certainly not you. Maybe you can explain what you mean.

I have a difficult time seeing a wayward person who is freely engaging in an affair........not being in some kind of control of themselves. Yes, her choices and behavior may appear to be out of control, b/c is wayward to the principles & standards of your lives...........and especially the marriage. But perhaps you will come back and say that she has some condition that causes her no control over her life.

Unless she has a serious mental disease/disorder, I am inclined to believe people have free volition. In spite of all the excuses that a lot of LBH'S try to make for their WW's.......the bottom line is that the W had free volition. Nobody forced her to have an affair. Influenced, encouraged, pressured, and/or tempted..........sure, yet it was her decision. She continues to make those decisions, while her family and home collapses around her.

Sandi2, if i understand your various posts correctly, I need to take control of my life, and technically hers. I'm having the same issues with my 4 year old son. He believes that he has control, but I need to display discipline, which I have not in the past. The same discipline i need to show my WW?

Well, you may be half-way on the track, so let me try to say it another way. I am not sure if I am following you, or if you understood me, completely. You can control, and need to take control of your life. You need to be in charge of your son's life....since he is only 4 years old. If you allow him to be in control of the adults.........you have only began to see hell. You should not try to control your wife's life. That does mean you have to just accept however she treats you. You can be the captain of the ship (home). Every home needs a leader, and I believe if there is a husband, he should take responsibility of being the captain. In a MR, the H and W are like equal partners, but if they do not agree about a decision that needs to be made.......someone most hold the position of final authority, and my belief is that the H should be the one in that position. One body cannot have two heads. So then, you need to understand that a wife should respect her H's position. She may not agree with him. She may not like it. She just has to respect it. If she can't, then she needs to leave. Whoever is in charge of the family, and is the leader, and has the final say.........has to be respected! If you read those threads I told you about, you will see how much I have to say about the importance of the W respecting her H. A woman is designed where she must feel respect for her H before she can experience those "in-love" feelings through the relationship. She will challenge him a lot. She will buck up and try to take over, but he has to firmly, and sometimes sternly, hold her feet to the fire (showing respect). And if she has ruled the roost for a long time, it will do no good to have a conversation about her showing respect, b/c it will take more than just talk. Oh, and I don't mean anything violent, please don't misunderstand me. I just mean she's not going to just start doing it b/c you talk about it.

If you have spoiled your W by never telling her "no", and giving her your pants to wear in the M, and cowing down to her brow-beating........then this will be the ultimate challenge of your life. The W who has carried her H's b@lls around in her purse, is not going to simply hand them back over. So, he has to grow a new pair.

He must set the tone of "discipline" (if you want to use that word) in his home. He should not be a tyrant, a lord or a master, or something along those negative stereotypes. Not a man who if feared by his family, but honored and admired. He needs to be a man of compassion, patience, understanding, and love. He needs to be a unique blend of great inner strength and yet have enough tenderness that he can experience love.....and being loved in return.

First, you work on having respect shown in your own home. (Forget about love and sex, until you have the respect). You conduct yourself in a respectful manner, and you command respect from others. Your son will have to be taught to respect you. And YOU are the one who will teach him. You first take the control of daddy away from him. By the age he is now, he will be nearly as difficult as his mother, but you can manage him better. At least, I hope you can.

You lumped your son and W together when you spoke of discipline, or lack of it. You will probably see similar behavior from them, once you step up and fill your position in the home. You will quickly see that talking is useless, without the action to back it up. And both of them will test you to see if you have the backbone.

I am careful about using that word "discipline", where W's are concerned, although there is some basic truth in it. I am spunky enough that if I thought my H called himself disciplining me.......there just might be an uprising! (jk) You have to be careful, as the H, that you don't confuse discipline with punishing her. So, perhaps using a different word would be better.

We teach people how to treat us. And, it goes double for your W. It started when you M her, and now you have a big problem of her behavior.........and also your son. Children need discipline if they survive in this world. Maybe you need to look in the mirror and have a serious conversation about how things are going to change.

We can discuss it more tomorrow, but this post has become long. I want to wait and see how you sound, and also I would like for you to answer my questions at the beginning of this post.

One word of warning. Do not make any serious statements or actions with your W on this subject, until we have time to talk more. The H can stick his foot in his mouth when he gets too eager to show her who's boss. Know what I mean? I have a feeling you have much to learn.

[DDJ]

GWH, I think the time for being careful has passed.

We try to hold onto love and we forget that love is really respect. With respect comes trust, with respect comes discipline and lastly love. Think about your relationships with your children, if you have. You show them respect and they return it to you. You give them a spanking but 5 minutes later, they're laying in your arms sleeping.

These WWs and H have no respect for you, themselves, their marriage or their vows. They begin to resent you for not showing them the respect that they need, until it unleashes - drug abuse, EA, gambling, alcohol. Before tonight, I thought that my WW was spontaneuos and a loose cannon, but now I realise that she has never had respect, for anyone including herself. She could never know what real love was and is.

And don't get me wrong, I was complicit too, never heeded the warning signs to reel her in. This is my lesson. I needed to show her love, for her to fall in love with me.

So, if she leaves tomorrow, I am so much better off. I want someone in my life that respects herself and me. Then we can love each other.

In conclusion, I'm saying, don't save a marriage, save the person wanting to leave. Show them tough love.

[DDJ]

Hi Sandi2,

Wait...........what?!? What happened to the man yesterday who was saying all that stuff about not letting her back in, and making her grovel? I honestly thought I was on the wrong thread and had to look back over the posts to make sure I was not confused.

So my wife still TM chats with the OP, in front of me. I really can't deal, but know that i have to.

What do you mean you know you have to deal with her TM with the OM in front of you? No, you don't tolerate that type of disrespect.

The arousal is innate and she needs to satisfy that sexual attention seeking too. Don't get me wrong, I made sure that I set it up so that I would sleep in the next room.

Well, I'm trying to not get you wrong........but maybe you should draw me a picture. What happened to the man who first came on board.....up till yesterday (according to the computer's date).

I've just realised that she actually has no control over her life, and never has.

So, who does have control of her? Certainly not you. Maybe you can explain what you mean.

The man is still there, I was testing a few theories to uncover her many faces. This is why i realised that what she was missing was respect.

My WW certainly has control over her life, but without respect for yourself, you lose control of things and never really understand how you got to where you are. Like you say, I need a firm hand, followed by a loving embrace.

Am definitely not going to try and put my foot in it. Lets see what happens tomorrow.

Do you suggest a new post?

I really appreciate your time and focus on my case, and hope i'm not drifting too far off course. As you can see I'm extremely analytical which is not a good when it comes to emotions.

[DDJ]

OK Sandi2, I finally get it. I never did before, but i get it now.

What i need to be, is the best me and best father. She will need to see if this person can also be the best husband.

But this whole episode changes a person, it makes you weak, weaker than ever before. Perhaps, its really the truth, perhaps I have always been weak and my WW has just shown me to be my true self.

I've always been trying to change her, and forgetting that I need to change myself. It might be too late for her and I to reconcile, but it's never too late to learn.

[DDJ]

So my WW still wants to have sexual relations with me. What do i do?

My head is saying no, but my body says yes!!!