I Used to Like Rollercoasters

[HopeRB]

Thanks Zeus and V. How do I proceed? Whats the best way to interact with him at this point?

I'm so thankful that I have opportunities to interact but every time I do, I feel bad or weird when I'm doing the counter-intuitive, DBing thing and then I get a little too nice and validate a little too much.

Whats the balance?! Am I looking down a cheeseless tunnel? I continue to have hope but am I delusional?!

[Vanilla]

Detach my lovely.

That's all you can do, live your life and keep on becoming someone only a fool would leave.

V

[HopeRB]

Update/Journaling:

H has been contacting me more frequently about bills. And though I continue to try my hardest to detach, I do see this as progress...ideally progress toward the healing and restoration of our M.

He came by twice in one week about 2 weeks ago to go over financials and he we agreed that I would take care of some things that I would normally take care of. I made a mistake and invited him to stay for dinner and he obliged. I got a bit sassy and threw some truth darts his away when the convo would have light talks about R. I told him, "I know thats what you want, but I don't want it." He simply got quiet, looked down at his knife and fork, started playing with it and said, "I don't want a D either but I feel its the right thing to do...but I do think about the opposition (the alternative is what I'm thinking he was saying). We continued to have light talk, and a few laughs at the same talking about bills. But then he says he wants to help me. I told him he needs to stop going around telling everyone he wants a D and he said, "Everyone is making their own opinion about it and it's like telephone. Yes, I have talked about D but, if you want to know something about us, you come talk to me." I just said ok...its a matter of respect b/c I am your wife. But none of this was in a bitter, loud way at all. We were being honest with each other but again, I'm trying not to overanalyze.

I know I made a mistake cooking dinner for him, that wont happen again until he comes to me and says he wants to work on it. Otherwise, I will continue to detach as much as I can. I've been advised to "compassionately detach" as he doesn't respond well to me being cold. I've been way too validating and accommodating to him so I've stopped all of that. It've time for me to show my anger - in a lovingly distant way. He also thanked me for being so being so accommodating to him throughout all of this.

I want him to feel the loss of me and feel that he needs me but there are things that he will not address or take care of unless I do, and its tough b/c those things are affecting me directly since I'm really in a financial pickle, looking for a new job, trying to keep my apartment and save money to move. He's been more helpful but I try not to read into it and just look at it from a positive angle - going from absolutely ignoring me and NC.

So compassionate detachment is where I fall right now...

[HopeRB]

Didn't realize I had already commented on H coming by a few posts ago.

Other than that, just an update on how I'm trying to channel my "anger", use it and still be compassionate while detaching. Just not sure if it comes off to him as if I'm ok and he's off the hook.

[ciluzen]

I'm sort of "compassionately detached" as well. I'm still nice, still validating, still allowing him to vent and share when he initiates. If he is over helping with the house (it will be on the market soon)I offer up food when I am eating. But I don't initiate contact unless it is important info anymore. I live my own life with my own friends and interests. It seems to be what works for some of us.

I'm full into the divorce process, but being nice and helpful. I'm almost getting the feeling that my packing up the house and taking care of splitting accounts, getting names off of things, setting up my own life apart from H is going too fast for him. He's dragging his feet and I'm upsetting him, either because its suddenly becoming real to him or because my doing it in an upbeat, helpful and efficient way is making him think I really do want the D he initiated.

I feel ya on this:

" I want him to feel the loss of me and feel that he needs me but there are things that he will not address or take care of unless I do, and its tough b/c those things are affecting me directly since I'm really in a financial pickle, looking for a new job, trying to keep my apartment and save money to move. He's been more helpful but I try not to read into it and just look at it from a positive angle - going from absolutely ignoring me and NC."

We both have to reinvent ourselves, where they're carrying on with what they "want" or at least, think they need to feel happy. By detaching and moving forward with life, cheerfully, it seems to confuse them. Possible power shift? With my H, I have found he is an emotional punisher. H behaved badly, I confronted, he punished me for confronting him by being worse next time. Now I ignore (or appear to). I have found that if the punishment doesn't appear to affect me, he loses his power. It confuses him.
This is how detaching seems to help. I just keep saying to myself, "I am the lighthouse". And then move on with myself. Still analyzing though.

I don't think you necessarily made a mistake making dinner for him. Just change your attitude about it, maybe. Instead of cooking dinner for him, cook dinner for YOU and offer him some if he is there. Remind him he can say no...then you get leftovers for lunch.

[Zues126]

It've time for me to show my anger - in a lovingly distant way. He also thanked me for being so being so accommodating to him throughout all of this.

I want him to feel the loss of me and feel that he needs me but there are things that he will not address or take care of unless I do, and its tough b/c those things are affecting me directly since I'm really in a financial pickle, looking for a new job, trying to keep my apartment and save money to move.

Hope, please continue to post regularly. Maybe you don't feel like your sitch is changing, but a lot of progress is made when you talk about where your head is at.

Your discussion above comes off to me as controlling. Wanting to influence how he feels in an attempt to change his behavior is controlling. I promise you that if he feels like you're trying to influence him or manipulate him he'll pull much, much farther back.

He's probably trying to get free of you emotionally. I understand that's not what you want, but the more you try to reel him back, the more he will resist. If you truly let him go then he can be free to decide what he wants, instead of reacting to your tugging. So telling him D isn't what you want isn't helping you. Nor is guilting him about how you hurt. And so on. He won't come back for those reasons, and if he did it wouldn't work out very well.

The hardest thing in this is that we can't control our WAS's. We never could. And oftentimes it was our attempts to do so that drove them away during the R.

Your best bet to save the M is to get him to believe that maybe the new M could be different. But if he felt controlled or manipulated during the M, trying to control him back just proves that it won't be different.

By letting go, validating his autonomy, and breaking the co dependence you will be better off on your own, and maybe he sees that things could be different.

Keep posting.

[HopeRB]

Thank you for posting ciluzen and Zeus.

The thing is that Im trying to get on my own two feet but Im in a very very tough position right now. Ive expressed to him that I can handle things and he says ok...but to be honest I do need his help and while I dont ask, when he gives it I simply say thank you.

I was told if the topic of D comes up to be honest that it's not what I want but to validate his thoughts/feelings on the subject - which is what I continue to do.

Everyone tells me I need to be angrier, and I'm too nice. Am i being too nice by validating and not arguing and defending?! I pull back and then its wrong, then I listen to him and validate and thats not great either. So what do I do? I'm working on letting go, I really am.

But I don't know how letting go exists while being hopeful and having faith that we can rebuild and begin a new M with each other.

[HopeRB]

We both have to reinvent ourselves, where they're carrying on with what they "want" or at least, think they need to feel happy. By detaching and moving forward with life, cheerfully, it seems to confuse them. Possible power shift? With my H, I have found he is an emotional punisher. H behaved badly, I confronted, he punished me for confronting him by being worse next time. Now I ignore (or appear to). I have found that if the punishment doesn't appear to affect me, he loses his power. It confuses him.
This is how detaching seems to help. I just keep saying to myself, "I am the lighthouse". And then move on with myself. Still analyzing though.

I don't think you necessarily made a mistake making dinner for him. Just change your attitude about it, maybe. Instead of cooking dinner for him, cook dinner for YOU and offer him some if he is there. Remind him he can say no...then you get leftovers for lunch.

Oh an ciluzen, I agree.

I didnt actually cook dinner for him. I had more than I could eat and didnt start cooking till he got there and he just watched me cook so I asked him if he wanted any. But still, I don't know if that was the best move.

And I also think you have a point about reinventing ourselves, this is what I've been focusing on - just doing different things.

[Zues126]

Thank you for posting ciluzen and Zeus.

Hope, you are quite welcome. You are a very supportive person and I'm glad to see you posting on other's threads, as well as reaching out for your own support.

The thing is that Im trying to get on my own two feet but Im in a very very tough position right now. Ive expressed to him that I can handle things and he says ok...but to be honest I do need his help and while I dont ask, when he gives it I simply say thank you.

I'm good with most of this. It's fine to accept help you need graciously, and I'd even go so far as to say it's ok to let him feel good about it if it comes off GENUINELY. Look, guys like to feel appreciated, helpful, admired. If you make a comment like "thank you H, you are way better at that than I am, that would've taken me hours!" and can say it in a breezy way, go right ahead!

Just don't do it as part of a 'strategy' to show him that you can be appreciative or anything. If he feels it is you trying to control him it will be destructive. But if you sincerely feel moments of gratitude, go ahead and express them.

That said, I would recommend you become self sufficient. What would you do if he had died in a car crash? At some point you'd have to pick up the pieces. You've expressed not wanting to appear fully capable as that 'lets him off the hook' and he won't feel as bad about leaving you if you seem to be doing fine, but hon, as I said, guilt and shame just comes across as controlling anyway. You're better off letting him off the hook than appearing to be vengeful and controlling.

So take the help he offers graciously, express your gratitude light and breezy, and pick up the pieces of your life so you can let him off the hook to walk his own road.

I was told if the topic of D comes up to be honest that it's not what I want but to validate his thoughts/feelings on the subject - which is what I continue to do.

I believe this is correct for the FIRST time that D comes up. Beyond that I think it is too much.

There are only two reasons to state that you'd prefer to be married. 1) to try to control him to do what you want regardless of how he feels, and 2) to make sure he knows you'd be open for R if he was.

Problem with 1 is that controlling behavior and dismissing his autonomy and feelings is what got you here, so it's unlikely that implying that you want him to do what you want him to do regardless of how it feels will inspire him to want to reconnect with you. As for 2, he knows very well how you feel, and in fact the knowledge that you are a plan B for him is only enabling his indecision. People excuse this by saying "I don't want him to think that the road home isn't paved or to think I wouldn't take him back". Trust us on this, if he wants R with you he will bring it up in some way, shape or form. And if he does your best bet of not killing that twinge of interest would be not coming on too strong or jumping right back into bed with him anyway.

So no more "I know this is what you want BUT..." talk. Just validate and bite your tongue, then continue to move forward with your life and strive to create a situation in which WAH might actually wonder how you feel.

Everyone tells me I need to be angrier, and I'm too nice. Am i being too nice by validating and not arguing and defending?! I pull back and then its wrong, then I listen to him and validate and thats not great either. So what do I do? I'm working on letting go, I really am.

I've never told you to be angrier

Look, we don't want you to be a doormat. We want to make sure you aren't allowing yourself to be mistreated emotionally, financially, spiritually. We want you to have the strength to pick up the pieces of your life. We don't want you to lie in bed depressed every day. There are things about this that trigger a lot of anger, and it's good to acknowledge your anger, and to use it to empower yourself to not allow these things to happen.

But I don't know who would tell you to be angry with HIM. To me I see nothing good that can come of that. At best it is a cheap attempt to fake detachment or disinterest in an attempt to make him fear losing you, but I don't think that works. It would just show you have a lot of emotions vested in what he does and make you less pleasant to be around.

I think listening and validating is EXACTLY what you should be doing. Why do you feel that isn't great?

If you can listen, validate, and then not reply with your own opinions/thoughts/feelings/desires/wants/needs/interpretations, you will be doing great. Just acknowledging him, what he's telling you, and let him go. If he expresses regret about the D, it's appropriate to share that you regret the D as well, as long as it's done in a MIRRORING tone like "too bad this is what we needed to do" rather than "too bad you did this to us". And if he expresses hurts you caused, it's ok to share that you regret causing those hurts as long as it's "I have had a chance to see how deeply I wounded you and I truly regret that H, there are a lot of things I would have liked to do differently", and not "I can change and we can make this work".

Make sense? Just validate, mirror, and STFU.

My DB coach told me once "If you go on to R there will be a time and place for you to express your own feelings and needs, so biting your tongue isn't the model for what a future M might look like. But that can't happen unless WAS decides they are willing to recommit to the M. Until that day comes STFU and validate".

But I don't know how letting go exists while being hopeful and having faith that we can rebuild and begin a new M with each other.

My biggest breakthrough came when I let go of hope.

Hope didn't do anything for me. Hope equated to attachment. Hope equated to not taking the steps needed to take care of myself because maybe I wouldn't have to. Hope equated to prolonging my pain because I clung to the notion that maybe I don't have to grieve the loss of my M.

When I let go of hope I hurt less, I became open to the joy of my daily life around me with my children, work, and hobbies. I was able to be more detached. Because I hurt less I had an easier time being my normal self around WAW. I dropped the rope and allowed her to have her own journey. And, lo and behold, since she never looked back my giving up hope gained me a lot. I saved a ton of pain, had the strength to be there for my kids, win 50% custody, and do well enough at work that I can provide for them.

There is nothing bad that comes from giving up hope and accepting the loss of your M.

The only way this could be a negative is if you stopped DBing, or burnt bridges. If you said to yourself "Well, I was going to try to do some personal growth and make myself a better more understanding compassionate mature person, but if I can't have WAH back what's the point, furthermore these mixed emotions aren't fun to deal with so I'll be so rotten to him that I know he'd never forgive me and the bridge is burnt, I think I'll sleep with his best friend and take him to court for every penny while trying to control him through the kids, that way I know the M is dead and I don't have to wonder anymore"...

Sure, if that was your alternative to hope then I'd say stay hopeful. But really, there is NO REASON you can't let go of hope, learn to accept the loss of your M little by little, and continue to rebuild your life despite the ambiguity of the end of this relationship. It can be done. I did it. I tell people you know you're DBing right when you don't feel like your life is on hold until after 'limbo'. Your life is here, now, today. You don't need a Divorce Decree to be open to the goodness all around you. You just need to let go of hope, and the idea of conditional happiness it suggests.

So my questions to you would be, why else besides WAS do you think DBing is a good path for you to be on? If WAS died how would you pick up the pieces of your life?

Remember Hope, if you can't find joy in your life with what you have, God giving you back one flawed man won't change that.

It's not easy, and it takes time, so don't think you can't do this. Just keep your eyes on you. Maybe set a goal of you reaching a place shortly down the road of being independent financially and emotionally, appreciative of what you have, and able to enjoy the life you've been given. Steer towards that. If you get there and WAH wants to play ball, you can figure it out then. But you can't avoid getting on your own two feet hoping he rescues you.

[HopeRB]

Update/Journaling:

Haven't been on in awhile. I've been in quite a deep depression the last few weeks leading up to my birthday and right after. I was getting sad remembering how much H and I loved our birthdays together and how I just wanted to spend the day with him.

Up until my bday, I've let H do all of the initiating and extending of convos and every week or so, I'd get a text saying, "How are you doing? Is there anything I can help you with?" And trying to DB as best as I can, I replied in a light, breezy tone - only bringing up things I need help with logistically if he asks. He keeps offering to help but his actions don't always match. I know, believe 50% of what they say.... Very frustrating.

So a few days before my day, he reaches out and asks how I'm doing and what are my plans for my birthday. I responded and he replied, "That's nice." The next night, I break and text him saying, "I wish I was spending my bday with you." Mind you, I NEVER do that sort of thing. He replies the next day asking what my plans are and what time I'll be home, saying that he will come by in the evening. Needless to say, I was very surprised by this. So he waited until I got home and came right over, and was sitting in our apartment waiting for me when I walked through the door. He told me he has a gift for me, but that he left it at the place he's staying, but will bring it over later this week, and then asked me if I wanted to go to dinner. *No, I never changed the locks b/c I never felt it was necessary as he always tells me when he is coming over and has only ever popped up out of nowhere once 2 weeks after he left b/c I never called him back after he called me even though I said I would.

So we went to our favorite place in the neighborhood and though some things we talked about hurt and were difficult, for the most part we had a really nice time. He held my hand, fed me a piece of cake, we laughed, listened to music, etc., basically did the things we did when we fell in love. He walked me home and came up for a bit. And as soon as he got too comfortable and started to hug me very passionately, he pulled away abruptly stating he doesn't want to play with my emotions. He then left and said he would bring my gift by later in the week, but hasn't yet. The next day I thanked him and told him I had a good time and he says he had a good time too. But here's the reason I gave you the background story - he really hasn't made a peep since!

I've followed up with him on some things we discussed but its as if he completely forgot about those things b/c he responded like a day later and now its back to the distancing crap again. So basically, I was sent on another tailspin. He's still saying he doesnt know if he wants to be married but then says he wants to continue having good days like the one we had the other night. Very frustrating b/c as mentioned, I havent heard a peep from him!

There's so much going on right now that all stems from this and I'm feeling overwhelmed and all alone, but I know this wont be forever. I just need to work on finding my joy and peace, and reconfiguring my GALing because its getting boring and expensive. It just seems as if he's forgotten about me and is moving on with his life. I know mind reading but thats the honest truth.