Lostman, I hear you, it can be very up and down day by day. But your 2nd last post sounds like you're making progress. We're here from you so keep posting.
The good news I think is that you're in a much better spot at saving your marriage that I am. But if you don't act quickly in taking steps to save it, it will fail.
Have you considering seeing a MC?
Me37 W33 T:8 M:5 D3 BD 11/2015 EA+PA w boss 12/2015 S 3/2016
Im stronger because I had to be Im smarter because of my mistakes happier because of the sadness Ive known and now wiser because I learned
Thanks Gr8Dad and Zues. Can't tell you how much I truly appreciate the support.
Yesterday was a rough day. There was nothing in particular that W did or that I did that made it rough. I was just sad and wanted my W back.
Got home and enjoyed dinner as a family. After putting kids to bed, W and I watched some TV together and she snuggled into me. I had my arms around her and she held my hand. She cuddled with me in bed as well, but I screwed up and let her see that I wanted to ML. We didn't, but we did cuddle which is progress.
Today will be better. I feel good this morning and know that I am working on myself and getting myself in a better place. I WILL NOT PURSUE TODAY!!!!
That is by far my biggest problem. I am so torn because I was neglectful and inattentive in the past which led to her resentfulness.
I have no idea if she is communicating with OM still. If I find out that she is, I will react differently than I did in the past, but I also am working on building trust by not snooping. This is just such a disaster.
Me - 32 WW - 30 D 11, D 3, D 2 T - 9 years M - 8 years BD - 2/16
I got proof of the A and she has admitted the A, so I don't really need more details than that. She does not seem to be talking to OM, but I have no way of knowing because I don't want to snoop. Should I continue to refrain from looking and just be hopeful that she is being honest and not talking to OM?
Okay, forget about the snooping for a minute. She admitted to having an A. What was said after her admission? Did she show remorse for betraying you? Did she say that she would end it immediately?
This is the time you should set a transparency plan in motion. A transparency plan is when the unfaithful spouse agrees to give full access to all messages/activity. No private accounts, etc. The betrayed spouse can look at the phone, email, etc., whenever they choose to see it.....with no scheduled or regular times and with no warnings. The betrayed spouse decides when to look at the messages.....not the wayward spouse. If the unfaithful spouse is not willing and refuses to give full disclosure, then there is a reason he/she wants privacy.
A transparency plan works to help the wayward spouse stick to the straight & narrow road in marriage. It is a plan to help the wayward spouse earn trust from the spouse he/she betrayed. The betrayed spouse can have more assurance whenever he/she can freely look at any & all activity the wayward is doing.
Now, don't be like the guy who waited for his WW to delete all the messages she didn't want revealed. And don't be like another LBH who waited until his WW would quickly check her phone to see if there was something she forgot to delete. Transparency doesn't work that way. If the WW starts talking about how she needs her privacy........you better know right then & there that she has not ended her contacts with the OM.
What really disturbs me about your sitch is how you talk about wanting her to trust you. You have this backward. She is the unfaithful spouse. You are the betrayed spouse. You have said more about "not snooping" than you've said about her A. You are acting as if you are the guilty party and wanting to earn her trust in you. Don't confuse this with you wanting to show how you can change.
You said something about if you discovered an affair, you wanted her to see how you would not react the way you use to react. Has she had any type of an affair in the past? If so, how did you react to it?
I understand if you don't want to know the details, b/c of the emotional number it does to you. I don't think you have to know all the dirty little things that will be forever branded in your brain. Some betrayed spouses want to know, and others don't want to know. Do what is most healthy for you. I just believe whenever an affair is swept under the rug, the problem is not resolved and will rear its ugly head later.
It also concerns me that you may be having sex with her, after discovering an affair.
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What do I do when she initiates physical intimacy?
Have you ever told her "no" to anything? I'm serious, have you?
A wayward wife cannot be trusted. She has to earn back trust. Transparency helps her show she's not involved in an inappropriate relationship. This takes time.
No matter how much you want to start over and be the perfect H.....her issues still exist and need addressing. This should not be about her feeling she can trust you. What have you done that would make her feel she can't trust you? Let me guess. She turned this around after she knew you snooped, and now she's making it like you are the one who can't be trusted.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks for taking the time to respond and share your insight. I guess I have been glossing over some details.
Snooping/Distrusting has always been something I have done. For no reason ever in the past. I always accused her of wanting to be unfaithful because of my own insecurities.
She has never had an affair before and she apologized and said that I deserved better. She did say that she will stop talking to him. The PA was one night and I called her and said we were finished and she left him immediately and came home.
So when I say I want her to trust me, I more mean that I want to show her I am capable of not being the man I was. Unfortunately, I was a very insecure man and snooping was something I did that caused her pain/resentment because she wasn't doing anything.
I have said no sometimes, but not often. Typically when she wants something, I give it to her. I have come to understand that is because that is how I would try to show her I loved her. I was very disconnected emotionally and I figured if I have her things she wanted it would be enough. This is very tied in with my insecurities.
She actually did not get upset at my snooping in catching her affair. Honestly, I think she just expected that to happen.
The problem is that I want to be intimate with her. I believe she is sorry for the affair. If I learn otherwise, I will be angry and not have a desire to be intimate with her.
Me - 32 WW - 30 D 11, D 3, D 2 T - 9 years M - 8 years BD - 2/16
Thanks Gr8Dad and Zues. Can't tell you how much I truly appreciate the support.
You got it.
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Yesterday was a rough day. There was nothing in particular that W did or that I did that made it rough. I was just sad and wanted my W back.
Understood. One thing that I want to make clear to all newcomers is this: Don't put much stock into how you FEEL. They are not a good compass to use to make decisions. Furthermore, don't believe too much of the THOUGHTS your brain is generating. Those are just reflections of your feelings.
The only thing you can hold on to right now are your BELIEFS. Your beliefs about marriage, your beliefs about what a man should do, your belief in God. That is it.
It's ok to talk about your feelings here, it can be therapeutic and healing, and it's essential to your growth as they will reveal outlooks that might not serve you well. But don't act on them.
My motto is I don't care how you feel, I care how you ACT. Keep your feelings to yourself at home, and regardless of how good or bad you feel, ACT consistently and in line with your BELIEFS.
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Got home and enjoyed dinner as a family. After putting kids to bed, W and I watched some TV together and she snuggled into me. I had my arms around her and she held my hand. She cuddled with me in bed as well, but I screwed up and let her see that I wanted to ML. We didn't, but we did cuddle which is progress.
This last sentence shows an outlook that isn't accurate or helpful. The idea that this is progress. It seems reasonable enough, and a lot of people fall for this. They think that Divorce is on one side, Marriage is on the other, and therefor actions that seem like a married couple would take are good, and actions towards divorce like separating finances are bad.
This ISN'T THE CASE.
For example, if WW expresses she isn't committed to the M, treats you hot/cold, won't commit to a transparency plan...ok, it is what it is, you can't control her. But for you to then take the crumbs she throws your way as "a step in the right direction" would be inaccurate. See, in this case you would be ENABLING her, and essentially endorsing her decisions.
In some cases it makes sense to draw BOUNDARIES, tell her that since she isn't committed to the marriage and has broken your boundary of inviting a 3rd party into your lives, you can't live like this, and you refuse to support it. In some of these cases it may make sense to refuse emotional intimacy, and to separate finances and let her pay her own phone bill, etc.
Can you see how this might actually show her you are a strong man unwilling to accept crumbs, let her realize there might be consequences for her actions, and give her a chance to realize you won't be her plan B? You can't make her hit rock bottom or wake up, but you can certainly prevent any chance of this happening with enabling behavior.
I'm not suggesting you go do all of this today. I just want you to see how sometimes things that look like they are "progress" might not be, and things that seem like they are "hurting" in terms of how she reacts might actually be helping.
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Today will be better. I feel good this morning and know that I am working on myself and getting myself in a better place. I WILL NOT PURSUE TODAY!!!!
Good. Again, this is an ACTION. I don't care how you feel, I care how you ACT. You can control this.
Beating a dead horse here, but to drive it home...she had an A because her FEELINGS > BELIEFS. If you allow your feelings (desire to be close) to trump your beliefs (knowledge that it's destructive for your marriage) then you are operating in the same dysfunctional way she is. How can you expect her to act with character if you can't? How can you expect her to let go of other man if you can't let go of her? Act with the character you wish she had. BE A LEADER.
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That is by far my biggest problem. I am so torn because I was neglectful and inattentive in the past which led to her resentfulness.
No excuses. DB is the path. Read all of Sandi's talks about the WW. Now is not the time to be the weak, clingy, begging, pursuing super husband. Here and there when she starts R talks to temp check you can validate and express regret at the things you did wrong. But don't you dare use this as an excuse to follow your feelings. Remember, thoughts are just rationalizations to do what you feel like. Don't do it. Follow the advice here.
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I have no idea if she is communicating with OM still. If I find out that she is, I will react differently than I did in the past, but I also am working on building trust by not snooping. This is just such a disaster.
Sandi nailed it. For you to try to persuade her that you're a new man by not taking appropriate precautions when your marriage is threatened is not going to work. In fact, trying to show her you're a new man is a form of pursuing. STOP IT. Just be the man you know you are supposed to be, and if she sees it or not, whatever.
Look. If your W was upset because you had a loaded gun in your bed stand, and she didn't feel safe, and nagged you about it. But then one day a man broke into your home and was attacking your wife with a knife. Would that be the time to tell her, "Gee honey, I guess I'll get rid of my gun"? NO!
Other Man is a predator, and other men are threatening your household, your marriage, and your family. A MAN stands up for his family, and for his marriage. That doesn't mean you 'fight' in the sense of being enraged, controlling, or threatening. It does mean you emotionally detach, set some boundaries for yourself, and stick to them...regardless of how you feel.
You're a good man fighting a good fight. Now be a good man and build the strength to do what's right, not what leads to conflict avoidance. You can do this. Keep posting.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Lostman, your sich sounds very similar to mine as well as the way you are responding.... I was in this sich 6 months ago but didn't pursue proof or the A, I spent 6 months trying to be the best H possible, begged, pleaded but the A and R kept coming up.
Finally I snooped and got proof of the A and she admitted 2 weeks ago, I should have set boundaries right there and then and didn't. She's moved out now and I'm trying my best to resist any contact, it's tough though - just yesterday she reached out wanting help for a job application at work and I reluctantly helped.
There are good days and bad days, yesterday was a bad day for me and I sought guidance here, in prayer and read the lighthouse story. Today is a better day but it can change any hour...
Keep working at it and set yourself some goals, I've found this very helpful for me.
Me: 40 W: 45 T: 13, M: 11 1 D: 9
Suspect A 6/15 ILBINILWY 8/15, and 3/16 EA/PA Discovered 3/16 EA admitted 3/16 W Moved out 4/16 W opens R talk and says A over 1/17
You guys that let affairs go unchecked are basically doomed. It's like you're waiting for some divine intervention to wise up your spouse. That's not going to happen. While you're being very passive about their affair do you know who isn't? Their AP. They're the one fighting to keep the A alive and telling them everything they want to hear.
