Exactly why that majority of us here do not act on our impulses. We realize that if we did, we would cross those boundaries and break the vows that we have taken. Life always looks better elsewhere until you go there and experiance it first hand. Then the realities of that person, situation, or lifestle hits and the reality is often a big dissapointment and a disaster taking us into territory that we never wanted or intended to go to. We have added complications to our already complicated situations. One impulse acted on may have dire long term consequences for ourselves and our families.
Life needs to be easier, simpler, and happier for all of us. Hopefully that is a fantasy we can experiance as reality again.
The real problem, as I see it, is when our darling spouse uses the term "fantasy" to describe OUR vision for the kind of marriage we want and need. If they can't SHARE our vision, and only reduce it to a fantasy which is all in OUR mind (read: "unrealistic expectations"), what then???
Well, to a degree your spouse is correct. It is ALL YOURS. You are describing a vision of the relationship YOU would like to have. Nothing wrong with that. But you need to take it to the next level if it is going to move beyond it being YOUR vision to an OUR vision. Her vision has to fit in there somewhere, too, in order for it to become shared, yes?
I took that advice to heart back then and it worked very well. The problem is that my W doesn't would rather watch TV at night and ignore the fact that we are in a team effort to save the marriage.
Secondly, I hate the word "boundaries". It feels constricting and contrived. Maybe I'm completely wrong here but I've been trying to communicate in terms of "Vision", "Principals" and "Communication Rules". It's almost like the "team management" books in the business section.
I'm in the process of writing an apology to W regarding my violation of our 1st rule "bringing up the past". Yes, I'm a hothead and my mind gets really foggy when I'm upset. If she could have calmly reminded me that I was breaking one of these rules, I would have thanked her for the reminder and shut my pie hole.
She's great at establishing the communication rules while I'm very good at establishing the vision and principals of a great marriage. We need to collaborate on these and get consensus. I'm also defining a principal that has to do with spending unproductive time doing nothing while we shuold be dealing with this stuff. I think that in her mind, watching TV together will fix everything. We have some real issues to address and we better have our sh!t together before we do.
I'm certain that part of our lack of communication is that we both suck at it in various ways. I attack, she diverts...we get nowhere. Well, this is helping.
It almost seems like having these little spats will improve our ability to communicate as long as we learn from them.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
The view of marriage that most of us HD's has is and EASILY achievable reality for us. Heck most of us are there, we are waiting for the LD spouse to arrive. We have this idea of highly sexed and/or highly affectionate marriages. But for the LD spouse, they usually dismiss this as fantasy not the real world. To them NOBODY has this kind of marriage. They can not see themselves as being THIS sexual.
What I don't understand in all this, is why would anyone set their goals so low? You can be roomates(companions) or you can be lovers. Lovers is just a far better version of companions. So why not go for the gold instead of settling for the bronze?
Dave, Let me ask you this: What is going to be YOUR contribution to fixing your SSM?
Specifically, what are behaviors that you brought to the table that allowed or facilitated the breakdown?
You seem to be overly focused on what your wife is doing or not doing. This is going to get you NOWHERE! You know this, Dave, you are just getting caught up in the moment. Believe me, I soooooo know where you are and when those negative thoughts take over it is so hard to stop yourself. Is this more of the same from you?
What are your goals, specifically? Can you list them for us? We'd be able to help you stay on track better if we knew what you were trying to accomplish in terms of your own behavior. I think I have a pretty good idea of what your expectations are of your wife, but not a clear one on where YOU want to go.
Regarding the babysitting issue, was it her sarcasm that bothered you? The magic wand comment? I have to say that I agree with you. If I had opened my heart and admitted a need to spend some alone time together and then got shot down with a sarcastic comment, I'd feel disheartened too. But I think that you could perhaps work on tackling it RIGHT THEN AND THERE. What you said to her was great! I maybe would have added, Oh and by the way the sarcasm really bothers me when I'm laying my heart's desire on the line for you. Letting things fester and then attacking her with it later on just doesn't work. I just did it to H the other night and you feel so retarded bringing it up! I have started thinking of H as a puppy dog who is being trained--I have to say what is buggin me right then and there, or the trainable moment is gone.
Quote: Well, to a degree your spouse is correct. It is ALL YOURS. You are describing a vision of the relationship YOU would like to have. Nothing wrong with that. But you need to take it to the next level if it is going to move beyond it being YOUR vision to an OUR vision. Her vision has to fit in there somewhere, too, in order for it to become shared, yes?
Corri
"Sexless marriage" is an oxymoron. Without sex, there is no marriage. Sex is what gives a marriage its unique quality, making it like no other relationship.
I'm not saying that my vision is sex 3 times a day every day. I have always been willing to modify my vision to include hers, however her vision seems to be to have a celibate, platonic relationship within marriage. Very much like the "I expect you to be faithful to me, but I don't expect to have to help you satisfy your sexual desires" expressed in Michele's book. Yet she labels my expectations as unrealistic. At some point, there has to be movement on BOTH sides, otherwise the result is stale mate (pun intended)...
Every expert I have read will tell you that sex is a major part of marriage. Sex in marriage is a REQUIREMENT. SHE is the one with unrealistic expectations. Half the female population out there thinks like your wife, they really want sex to go away. Why would ANYONE think that it is possible to have a good sexless marriage? Talk about burying your head in the sand to avoid reality!
There you go again, CeMar, with your stereotyping. Think of poor honeypot! It's not just MEN that are expected to be sexual, and not just MEN that suffer from SSM.
Quote: Sex is what gives a marriage its unique quality, making it like no other relationship.
That's not really true, as you can have a long term, exclusive relationship which includes sex, but is not marriage.
I think the vows are what give marriage its uniqueness, and they include far more than sex. A troubled sex life (medical conditions and illness asdie), is an indicator that the vows are not being honored on a multitude of levels. In most instances, lack of sex is NOT the problem. It's just the obvious symptom of the problem. Sure, I can have more sex with my H, but that didn't fix the problem(s)... so a temporary fix for the symptom occurs, but because the underlying disease has not been addressed, the symptom will either return, or manifest in some other form.
I absolutely agree with you that a sexless marriage is unrealistic and unfair. You just have to decide how long you are willing to be miserable. You W cannot abuse (disprespect) you one second longer than you are willing to abuse (disrespect) yourself.
As soon as you are ready to draw your line in the sand, declare who and what you are to the world, and OWN that, regardless of what might happen, your life will change. Until that time, you will suffer.
