Doing everything wrong...

[PacLove]

Man I wish I saw this before last nights conversation... I should have kept it brief but instead we got into a long discussion, she wanted to see what proof I had and then we started talking about the R and how we'd manage the time with the C. She talked about the time she needed... I need to start standing up against her.

She even talked about celebrating an upcoming B-Day together as a family which I was not totally against...

[sandi2]

You need to understand that everything about is about her. At least, in her viewpoint it is about what she needs and wants. You will see more selfishness in her than ever before. The only time it is about you, is when she tries to turn the table and make you out to be the bad guy. That's why you can't get into R talks or trying to explain where you stand. She doesn't care. She only cares about what she gets out of it.

She needs to get this........the minute she decided the two of you would not be man and wife, that's when it ceased to be a family unit. You will no longer be doing things as a family! That information needs to hit home with her, and hard. She doesn't get to have both the family and the single life.

You don't have to show proof of anything. If anyone should be held accountable of their actions or show proof, it should be her showing you. She is going to twist this around and make it your fault that she had an A.

I garantee you that she will twist everything you try to say and do. That is why you have to stay focused on your plan of action and not on her. She'll make you believe the moon is made out of cheese, if you listen to her. It's crazy.

The upcoming birthday celebration.......if it is the kid's birthday, you just tell her there will be separated celebration parties this year. If it is her birthday, you do nothing for her. If it is your parent's, she is not invited. She doesn't get to lay down the rules for you or your family. She will have to give her kids a birthday some place else, and without your help. You will give them yours. That is what divorced families do!! She chose to go outside the M, and she wants a D.......so show her what that will be like. It is no longer one big happy family, and it is not b/c of you......it is b/c of her.

[PacLove]

Thanks Sandi - for the birthday it's mine and a major milestone at that. I had wanted to go away for a romantic weekend just the two of us before all this happened, now she's planning something for the family to go away for the weekend. It's still 4 weeks away - my take on it is I will go if she tell's me the A is over, otherwise I'll do my own thing and find a friend to go away with or just spend it with my D. I'm guessing it will be the latter as 4 weeks won't be enough time for her to realise what she's giving up.

[sandi2]

now she's planning something for the family to go away for the weekend. I

So, give her a reality shake up. She no longer gets to plan something for the "family" b/c she has torn the family unit apart. She no longer has the privilege of planning anything that involves you.

You have to be the strong one here. It's just like when as a parent we have to be strong enough to see our kids experience certain things so they will become a responsible adult. As much as we might want to cave in to emotions, we know they will not develop and mature the way they should as long as we give way to them having what they want all the time.

I have observed how many LBH'S of a WW will not stand up and tell her "no". He will not take the reigns and start doing the hard stuff that will show her the reality of her decisions. It's not enough to just be against what she wants, he has to do the action that shows that she doesn't get to call those shots now. She can't move out and then continue playing family.

Let's say that this ends in D, and the two of you eventually marry someone else. Would you and your new W and kids join her and her new H to act like one big happy family? Would you take trips together and celebrate each other's birthdays? Well, IMO, that is the reality your WW needs to see.

Sure, you can go on this trip together......but I think you will be disappointed in the outcome. You will be hoping she sees how good things can be and it will cause her to end the A, etc. However, she will be there for what's in it for her. Selfishness! She uses the kids as her leverage, and that's all. She will not be seeing this as an opportunity to repair the MR. It is pure cake eating for her.

If within the next four weeks, she ends the A, stops all contact with OM, and you can see a vast u-turn in her attitude and actions.......then you can re-evaluate things. However, if she seems to have a last minute change of heart, right before time to take the trip? I wouldn't place much value in it.

It is astonishing how the WW thinks she can still call the shots and the family will continue carrying on as though her leaving has no effect on it. It goes to show how unrealistic she is thinking. IMHO, the sooner she sees the reality of what she has done, the sooner the fog will begin to break.

[kirklan]

i just experienced this and i made the mistake of letting her eat her cake, S's were acting up and she called me to "talk some sense into him". which i did..
after i realized what ive done,i shouldn't of answered the phone.
when she called me back to thank me, i said " ya whatever" WW" are you mad?" Me" i gotta go"

[PacLove]

Yeah it's not easy to just drop everything, we haven't even told our D yet that she's moving out. Easter today has been particularly tough - periods of coldness from her but then happiness as if nothing has happened. I've been in a daze all day long...

We had planned to go for a family bike ride this afternoon but I'm trying to figure out how to pull out or cancel, I just don't want to break my daughters heart. This would be our last family thing together since she leaves this week and we plan on telling D early in the week.

[PacLove]

2 questions for the group

1) How does one read into what she's thinking when she constantly brings up plans for the house? ie certain renovations, re-organizing, gardening etc.? I see this as she's in a confused state and may still see herself moving back in one day (gives me hope?)

2) In our long discussion about the A earlier this week, she doesn't see a future where I can trust her again nor where she could feel comfortable as I'd always be watching her. She's been on the other side of an A before so has personally experienced how long Trust can take and doesn't want to have to put our relationship through that. I just don't want this to be the sole factor in preventing her return one day if she's got this in her mind. How can one present to her that Trust can be rebuilt and that it's worth it? And does one do that now or later?

[sandi2]

1) How does one read into what she's thinking when she constantly brings up plans for the house? ie certain renovations, re-organizing, gardening etc.? I see this as she's in a confused state and may still see herself moving back in one day (gives me hope?)

Well first of all, don't take hope in what she says, b/c it means nothing. She is in la-la land. You can't read into what she's thinking unless you are as looney tunes as she is. This is not the only WW who talks about plans for the house, as she's packing her bags to leave. It is the insanity talking, and if you try to make sense of it....you will go nuts.

2) In our long discussion about the A earlier this week, she doesn't see a future where I can trust her again nor where she could feel comfortable as I'd always be watching her. She's been on the other side of an A before so has personally experienced how long Trust can take and doesn't want to have to put our relationship through that. I just don't want this to be the sole factor in preventing her return one day if she's got this in her mind. How can one present to her that Trust can be rebuilt and that it's worth it? And does one do that now or later?

Trust can be rebuilt. However, why do you, the betrayed spouse, believe it is your job to sell the idea to her......the unfaithful spouse? Shouldn't she be the one trying to get you to believe she can be trusted again?

See, that's what's misconstrued in the thinking of some LBH'S. I mean, the very idea that she cheats on you and you are trying to convince her you can trust her!! That is not how to deal with a wayward. (Besides, she's just playing games with you when she pulls this kind of stuff, to see how hard you will beg her stay). When she rattles off that kind of stuff, you should either say nothing and just let her rattle........or agree with her. Say, "You may be right", and then leave the discussion. That is about the quickest way to shut her up. It's all hogwash anyway, b/c she has no intentions of doing any changing in herself to save the M. This is nothing more than the wayward's manipulation and b.s.

Look, until you realize that she should be the one down on hands and knees begging for another chance.........you will lose at any attempt in getting her back.

I will never forget my D telling me, "You know you would not have put up with daddy doing like this for one second". My answer? "You are absolutely right, I wouldn't". He should have kicked me out on my butt. He should have told me I didn't deserve him, and he was going to find a woman who loved him and would be good to him. It would have yanked my head around so fast, and would have changed the dynamics in our MR. I had always been the one to put distance between us, thus I was in control of the R. The pursuer is never the one in control of the R. Don't you see?

You are allowing your cheating W to be the one putting distance between you, when it should be you distancing. You are acting as the pursuer, when it should be her. Your actions are saying, "Wait, honey, don't leave me for OM. I can change and become worthy of your love. I will prove that I can trust you, just give me a chance". Obviously, you have no idea what a turnoff this is for a WW. In fact, I dare say this was the very dynamic of the MR before she ever had an A. She pretty much called the shots, and you followed. She could say or do whatever, and you would conform. So now, she's still in charge. She knows how to work you, to get what she wants. She says you all will go for a family bike ride.........and that's what you do. You are trying to think of some excuse to get out of it, instead of just standing up to her and telling her, "No, I'm not going".

In the majority of stories that come to Newcomers, we see this same dynamic in the MR. The H thinks his job is to make the W happy, therefore, he is suppose to do whatever she wants. He thinks, "happy wife = happy life". He basically becomes a "yes dear" type of H. She looses respect, becomes resentful, and sooner or later she acts out in some form of rebellion. Then he chases after her, thinking if he can get her to change her mind, they can works things out. But she doesn't want him, b/c the attraction is gone. Nothing he says is going to really change her mind.

As long as a woman can mistreat and cheat on a man and he tries to get her to stay with him..........she will not be attracted to him.

You said after you received the DR book, you got distracted from finishing it b/c things started to get better for a while. Would I be guessing anywhere close by saying you saw things better based on her attitude, behavior/actions and the interactions you had with her? That is what I surmise that most H's determine that things are better or worse. However, the problems or issues are not resolved. Solutions are not sought out b/c as long as she is okay.....that's good for him. Only thing, when you have a wayward, the "better" does not last for long, without getting solutions.

I don't know if what I have said makes any sense or not. Bottom line is you have to change the dynamics in the relationship you have with her, and you don't have to be under the same roof to do it. It must start in how you think.

[Si_07]

Sorry for jumping on your post PacLove, but I love reading Sandi's posts. They are so enlightening and I wish I had come across her posts earlier in my situation. You make so much sense Sandi. Thanks for your continued support on these forums. I have learnt so much about what I'm dealing with.

[PacLove]

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah things got better for a but, I think she was feeling guilty though when I first brought up the thought she was having an A. At that time I only had a small amount of evidence.

We didn't go on the bike ride.

So I usually cook dinner or pick it up. For the remainder of the week (until she moves out) should I still cook for her or just worry about my D and I? I don't want to be cruel but at the same time am trying to detach. I stopped bringing her coffee in the morning as of last week.