Doing everything wrong...

[sandi2]

When she wants to engage should I be reciprocative? for example she wants to go out for family dinner tonight with our D, for the sake of our D I'd like to go but the other side of me is thinking of declining and making my own plans. But the other side of me wants to go for my daughter so she can see how as a family unit we can have a good time together.

Going out as a family is serving her a huge slice of cake! The WW wants to hang on to those things she had when she was M to you, yet endulge in her new wayward lifestyle.

She will use the children as her leverage in persuading the H to continue these activities. In reality, how many divorce couples do you see going out together with their kids.......just the two of them with their kids? Once they divorce, the couple begins their separate lives, and that is what the WW needs to see now. She needs to see that she is giving up these family times together and that her kids are going to suffer. Sure, it's hard on the H, too, but better to do now, with the hope it will be temporary.

If she was so concerned about the sake of her D, she would not have gotten into an adulterous A. This is what we call cake eating, when the WW wants to continue family time, yet have her wayward lifestyle, too. Until she begins seeing the consequences of divorce, she will not change her mind. One consequence is that the couple does not go out as a family, b/c they are no longer a family unit......due to the WW's decisions.

When she says something about going out, I would reply with something like, "I'm afraid it's not that simple anymore". "Divorce ends these family times together". If she tries to turn it around and make you out to be the villain, you tell her you were not the one who wanted to split the family. Then end the conversation. Listen guys, that's very important. You have to say something short and powerful and then end it. Walk away, hang up the phone or whatever, but don't continue a discussion with her. Will she get mad? Of course she will. So what? You cannot pussyfoot her back into the M. She is delusional and has to be hit with truth. Divorce couples do not continue as a family.

Of course she will make you out to be the bad guy, but she is going to do that, regardless.

If not to go - when do you start to reengage? when she comes clean on the A and says she wants in the marriage again?

When you can visibly see a change of attitude in your W. When she has a sense of humility or remorse, instead of false pride and rebellion. When she stops making everything your fault and takes responsibility. Her attitude will tell the truth before her tongue admits it. Always look at the attitude. If she is still spiteful, angry, wants to throw things in your face, speaks disrespectful.......then don't engage with her. She has a lot of heart work that needs to be done, before engaging with her.

If she doesn't come clean about the A, then I would say she is not ready to do what is required to piece the M back together.

How would one respond to her encouraging me to get out and date?

I would say something like, "Maybe you are right". Don't give her all the reasons you don't want to date.

Whenever you don't know how to respond to some of her wackiness, just give her a look that says you see right through her, then shake your head and walk away.

yeah I'm half tempted to find something else to do... so the big question is if she asks why I'm not distancing myself from her - how do I regain the power (probably a question for Sandi) do I say it's because she's moving out or do I say it's because I know have certain proof of the affair?

If she asks why you are not distancing from her? I am going to assume you meant to say if she asks why you are distancing. This is a time to give her one of thos looks, as if to say, "Seriously"? If you have to say something, keep it short, like....."Life goes on, even after divorce". Do not go into a long explanation. LBH'S tend to say too many words.

I really feel that H's make a mistake by always assuring his WW that he doesn't want a divorce. B/c the WW is not a normal thinking woman, and she really needs to believe she is losing him. If he is reassuring her that he still loves her, doesn't want a D, etc., she knows he will always be there. Good ole, patient, safe, LBH. Her backup plan. Therefore, he needs to shake her up by letting her know he will not patiently wait for her to decide what she wants. He will not wait while she carries on an A and see how that works out. He is worth so much more than what she's doing to him, and a lot of women would love a chance at a man like him. As long as the WW sees him as "safe", she isn't worried she'll lose him.

So I've got some good answers but still one remains. Do I confront her one last time about the A now that I have solid evidence before she moves out to try and shift the power back to me or let her go and just work on the GAL. At some point we'll need to address the A.

Yes, if you are going to be strong and not show her a whining, soft nice-guy who tells her you still don't want a divorce. That's about the worse thing you could do at this point.

Be advised, however, just confronting her will not make her admit anything, even with proof. It certainly won't make her feel remorse and apologize. But if it will help you to just let her know that she isn't pulling anything over you........then go ahead. Whatever you say, she is going to make it your fault. Don't use that time to have a long R talk. Just tell her that you know the truth.

Btw, none of what I have suggested is meant to be punitive. It may seem harsh to some people, but that's what it takes to break down the fantasy walls and reach the WW. You can't nice her back. You can't be soft. She has to see you standing tall and strong, and going forward In your life........even if it's without her.