After posting for the past month or so at "some other" relationship site, I came across this one and decided that this would be a much better place to continue recording a journal.
From everything I have read, I feel like I'm linked to many of you as my situation is so similar. Especially SuperDave, tim47, hairdaog, CeMar. I will try to avoid being cryptic but will shortly provide an overview of my situation here. It's been tough but I'm in the process of re-inventing myself and overhauling my relationship.
My Situation Me 35. W 35. D5. Married 10 Years Avg. 4 times per year - qualifies as a no-sex marriage. Meds - none Physical Issues - none. W can get aroused and orgasm one we get started. Psych Issues - W - slight body image problem (an a fear of feet...????).
Both of us fell into "comfortable" roles as individuals. Probably my fault initially because I was trying to launch a business when we first got married. I was definitely obsessed with taking care of my needs before hers but at any rate, we got into the infamous catch-22. I viewed the lack of sex as a "normal" thing that newlyweds do. Then I blamed myself for all the hours I was working, then when we had our D5, I blamed that, then it was work again. Being non-confrontational by nature, I never bugged her about it or pushed the issue. I just emotionally disconnected and tried to become a monk. But then in the past couple of years, after moving to a home-office and having great quality time with my w, she approached my on New Year's day and said that her resolution is to get the physical side of the relationship back. This, in combination with a passed opportunity for a PA with someone in a bar made me completely become motivated to ensure that we have the absolute greatest, fulfilling life together.
I read SSM then asked W to do it which she claims she did. She is opting to take a non-therapy/non-self-help approach. This is a positive sign because she doesn't feel (or want to feel) that things are that serious though she knows they are from a talk we had.
I established a "vision" of a fulfilling relationship. There are a few "principles" / boaundaries that have to be established that we are working on now. The first one was the establishment of things directly related to the desire issues and we are working through the others. Part of this also includes a set of "rules of engagement" which deals with how we communicate. (note, I just saw that Michelle's KLA seminars cover this).
I gave her my list of things which primarily included LM 2 times per week. Includes being together once on the weekend and once during the week. She's been doing it for a couple of weeks which is good but there are still some moments that I get very frustrated with the fact that it is not natural. I shouldn't complain because my ability to be connected into the M is also a little unnatural too. It feels like we are trying to find love in an arranged marriage.
What's also tough is that having "love" again makes you very sensitive to things and a little bit more needy of your love languages. I'm initiating a lot more now and experiencing more rejection where in the past, I just rode my bike to numb my nuts.
In this recovery, I've had 2 major breakthroughs along with many minor ones. The first epiphany had to do with being empathetic and patient and to no drop any major lists of requests to spouse because you can't "engineer" another person into something you desire. You can only provide a couple short, simple parameters that they can dwell on in their head. In our case it was my "minimum 2 days per week" request. Simple.
The second was the fact that there are only 2 things you can do in a relationship. 1. Provide the things that your spouse needs to feel love, respect, security, and comfort. In other words, provide the soil for her love to grow. 2. Work on yourself to become as attractive, and desirable as possible in the eyes of your spouse. The 5 love languages talk about love but it probably assumes that your spouse is attracted to you. I'm discovering more and more, that the LL is easy to fix while the attractiveness thing is a little more difficult because it requires you to change many aspects of yourself (think 180). These types of changes are hard like diets and you can easily revert to your old ways. In my case, I'm trying to become more laid back and less nerdy while making some dramatic changes to my appearance.
For the past few months I've had some huge swings up and some huge downward spirals. I'm not used to feeling "in love" like I did in college. Sitting closer to W, holding hands, and kissing more has made me more emotional with swings from blissful optimism to utter, hopeless pessimism within a 24 hour period. I'm thinking that those days are behind me now because we are in a fairly regular pattern now. I'm no longer dwelling on whether to tell W what I want etc. It's been established, I'm now doing my part to help, it's now up to her to do hers.
While this sounds like everything is good, there still a lot of emotional issues to deal with like rejection when initiating, her motivation discrepancies etc. I still need to vent and bounce ideas off of everyone occasionally.
Anyway, this is a fresh start for me in many ways. It feels like I've peeled a layer of tar off of myself because I was feeling really crappy a few weeks ago. I really want to forget about that person who was freakishly trying everything under the stars to force change. It took many hours of telling myself to chill,chill,chill. (Hopefully my W is telling herself "yum,yum,yum").
I'm much more relaxed and hopeful now. There's even the possibility that W might visit this site. After all, it was HER idea to fix the LD thing. I have to keep telling myself that because I seemed to jump in front of her with my phrenetic research and analysis which typical of problem-solve type personality. I'm sure some of you can relate.
-Dave
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Dave, I can't tell you how jealous I am that your wife initiated the LD recovery. Wow! That's huge. Not to read too much into it, or get hopes up too much, but sounds like maybe she'd be responsive to a "light" approach like little love games or something. You know, each write a number of desires down on slips of paper, put 'em in a hat, and each draw one, or take turns. Now fulfill that wish. Or the kind of thing Dave36 was talking about with his W a week or so ago.
Is there a pattern to the refusal thing when you initiate? How often are your advances accepted? I wish you all the best...
Trust me, it took me about a month to have it sink in that she did initiate it. Her problem is that she occasionally has difficulty translating goals into actions. I'm the opposite to a fault so when I watch her, I get frustrated. It's like trying to watch your kids hunt for easter eggs and seeing them miss the eggs that are right in front of them.
The other problem I'm having is that I'm not seeing any action like mine or the LDWs here. I would love to see her approach it like the others but she is simply a different kind of person. She's seems to keep very quiet but is showing results.
How would I like working for a boss that badgered me over my process instead of just giving me a deadline and expectations? That's what I'm having trouble with. The more I act like that, the less motivated she will be to work on the issues because she will see me as a-hole instead of a desirable, suckable guy.
Note: She is receptive to the playful notes and we are using the scratch-off cards like you mentioned. However, I wish I would have found the Laura Corn book before the cards. They have a similar system and she's really upbeat.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: I would love to see her approach it like the others but she is simply a different kind of person. She's seems to keep very quiet but is showing results.
Trust that. Go with it. Feel REALLY lucky!
Quote: How would I like working for a boss that badgered me over my process instead of just giving me a deadline and expectations? That's what I'm having trouble with. The more I act like that, the less motivated she will be to work on the issues because she will see me as a-hole instead of a desirable, suckable guy.
Trust me when I say I have read VERY few statments on here that are as wise as what you've written.
Sounds like you're on the right track, and I can't wait for the day when you post your goodbyes here, never to return. We'll all applaud that!
W got back into town. Hadn't seen her in 7 days. We didn't get more than 30 seconds before D5 distracted her with an issue. There was no moment of bliss. Of course she's extremely tired and I had no expectations of jumping into the sack. We talked a little bit tonight because I'm feeling really rotten. I told her that I wish I close the lid on this box I just opened because it is making me feel like a wreck and she is feeling like she is walking on eggshells. She gave me crap for being "dramatic". I told her that I'm feeling really bad despite everything I'm logically telling myself. This feels like a state of depression but it seems to be directly controlled by the amount of sex and erotic touching. She spooned up against me and was rubbing my back, then my butt. I took her hand an put led it to a grope which she didn't mind doing. Touching each "area" on me, I felt myself becoming more and more "at peace". I saw my body as having dotted lines indicated various zones with score numbers imprinted on it. Back = 1, Butt = 5, D!ck = 25.
She said that she is doing some self affirmations.... "I will have more sex" "I will do it twice a week"
Granted, I should be pleased with the fact that she is doing this but wouldn't a better set of affirmations be.... "I love sex" "I love how it feels"
In her tired state today, she could have just sat closer to me while watching TV. If I were to tell her that, she would completely flip and say how I'm putting her on eggshells. At one point tonight, I nicely said "why do you come sit next to me?". She replied "I am...I'm on the same sofa". Note: that this a giant sectional I just bought with the hope that we could cuddle together instead of being on separate love seat sized couches. I guess my intentions failed me again.
The more I'm recalling our day and writing about it, the angrier I get. Maybe it's not a good idea to journal every day. The self talk going on in my head is not very nice nor constructive. I better stop writing. I'm getting extremely angry now.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Most LD spouses are NOT motivated, so you already have the biggest battle going you way, a motivated spouse. Yes it can feel unatural, she is uncomfortable meeting the need for sex, and you are uncomfortable with the need for communication. Keep it up, practice makes perfect. Hopefually, you both will start to feel more at ease with it.
She said that she is doing some self affirmations.... "I will have more sex" "I will do it twice a week"
Granted, I should be pleased with the fact that she is doing this but wouldn't a better set of affirmations be.... "I love sex" "I love how it feels"
Ok, I'm just going to jump in quick before I have to head home from work. SHE'S TRYING! Let her know that while you appreciate her self aff., could she maybe next time keep them in her head? Learning to feel and like sex takes time. And any step that you can take in that direction is a good one. Be happy that she wasn't compiling a grocery list instead. You've been gone for a few days and kids can take a lot out of you. Maybe in the morning as if you can continue with the touch. If she says something about your D, let her know nicely that a huge part of your D's needs are to have two connected and in love parents. (Well, maybe that just worked for me). May tomorrow be better. . .
Just curious, why do LD have to learn to feel and like sex? This is something that is hard for me to fathom. I have been in a state of constant sexual interest for over 30+ years. It NEVER really leaves my mind. Sex is the most womderful human activity, there is nothing that even remotely compares to it.
Quote: Sex is the most womderful human activity, there is nothing that even remotely compares to it.
Agreed 100%. Of course, that hinges on the other partner having a f'ing clue what he/she is doing. I'm the LD partner and have had a fantastic sexual relationship pre-H with a partner who knew how to push every single one of my buttons in the right way. H, not so much. And he doesn't take suggestions well, in fact he flips out if I even suggest that what he's doing isn't "doing it" for me. And then a LM session turns into an argument. Not conducive to wanting to do it again.
...cattlekid (who is frustrated with having mind-blowing sex in a dream again last night while laying next to an H who could never fulfill that dream)
